STATter 911

get a job
 

What a whack job!!!!!
 

unbeleivable. you should the comments on the youtube page. They don't even understand HIPAA.
 

What a bunch of wackos. I for one do not want my picture plastered on someone's site as I am placed in an Ambulance. Video of fire in one thing. These "freedom" fighters crossed the line.
 

What a bunch of wackos. I for one do not want my picture plastered on someone's site as I am placed in an Ambulance. Video of fire in one thing. These "freedom" fighters crossed the line.
 

Ok...let me get this straight....you provided the location by announcing where you video taping your story( fishing for your story). In the video you hear a deputy say no photos. Then you show the video of a patient being wheeled away from the scene. I did not see a cover of the patient identity...I am hoping the victims signed a release to show his face if not....Then what I stated above is a blatant disregard of HIPPA.

Now, as far as the EMT goes....our job is to keep the scene safe. Should we protect the patients rights on scene? The answer is most overwhelmingly yes. Should the EMT have touched the out of line camera man? No. What should have happened is this whack job should have been reported by the Captain of this crew to the police.

Unfortunately, grabbing someone is yes possibly battery/assault. I am not a lawyer and nor claim to be one, but a law may have been broken here. So, until charges or more information is brought forward. I will just stick with the video an my comment.
 

I am not a lawyer and I certainly don't play one on TV, but I am reasonably certain that the First Amendment trumps HIPAA. I also am pretty certain that if HIPAA covers what I can and can not do as a reporter our very smart lawyers at our parent company would have provided me training by now.

Who broke the law here? People with a camera who may very well be obnoxious and rude (last I heard,that was not against the law), or was it the person seizing someone else's property?

In 37 years in the news business I have never had to get a release from anyone who appears in our news coverage. Did I miss something?

Also, did I understand the firefighter to say taking his picture was also a HIPAA violation. That may be the broadest reading of that law I have ever heard.

Bottom line is that you may not like the photographers and don't think they have any business taking these pictures. That is your right. And the people with the cameras may be jerks and that is their right.

Now let me ask you something. Wouldn't this issue have been solved without any muss or fuss if the firefighters used a sheet to cover the face of the victim or had someone hold it up along side the patient?

Just a thought.

Yes, I am biased because I am one of those terrible reporters who cover the news and don't let anyone else tell me when I can and can't roll the camera in a public place.

Statter
 

I'm pretty sure the first amendment rights do not cover the taking of pictures of accident scenes or any other response on the BW Parkway either but the US Park Police forbid even a fire company from taking any pictures on the Parkway, even when they do not include pictures of patients or license plates.

What give them the right to deny this? Yes, I have been threatened with the confiscation of the camera equipment and being arrested, although I'm not sure what the arrest charge would be.
 

The job of the EMT (EMS) is to render care to the patient within the scope of training and permissible medical protocols and transport the patient to a medical facility if appropriate while exercising every reasonable means to protect the patient (period). While I am not an ALS provider, I have been a practicing EMT for many years, and of all the EMS refresher training, I can't recall any training that described taking a camera from someone who was videotaping you loading a patient into an EMS unit. This is another example of a hothead "firehouse lawyer" that decides to do some street interpretation of HIPPA.

If the patient believes their privacy was violated, they should hire a lawyer and pursue the matter through the judicial process.

Furthermore, it appeared there were plenty of law enforcement types that could have controlled the scene and kept on-lookers at a distance.
 

yes it is against hipps to take any pictures of a patient that show the face or anything that may idnetify the person no matter if its just a small cut or a major incident the 1st amendemnt dosent not protect this no matter where you happen to be standing
 

This guy with the camera is a jerk. He has something against the local government, but what the EMT's were doing had nothing to do with his issues against the 'socialist' issues the cameraman has with his local government. He should not have been harassing them while they carried out their duties.

This is not a HIPAA violation as that only applies to medical care providers and people who handle protected health information. It does not apply to private citizens or the media.

The EMT was wrong for taking his camera, which would constitute an assault and possibly theft. The EMT should have handled this situation much better, and may have been better off having security/the police deal with the cameraman.
 

As for the Park Police on the BW Parkway, that sounds like typical misinformation that so many police/security personnel tell people about taking pics/video in public places. I wouldn't recommend doing this as the hassle would not be worth it, but if you were to disobey them over the photo/video orders you would find that they wouldn't be able to charge you with anything and would confiscate your equipment and harass you. They would then later return your equipment. Just as we have seen with the people who were taking pics at Union Station a little over a year ago.

The police/security love to over extend their authority and lie about you not being able to take pics/video in public places. But they have no legal ground to do so. The reason why they get away with it is due to people realizing that it's not worth the harassment you will go thru if you disobey them. Though, this is an area where organizations and legal bodies need to take a stand against these practices as they are in a better position to do so.
 

As a newsman, I can tell you that the first wacker that touches my camera will make me a rich news man. The US Supreme Court has ruled that a newspersons camera is an extention of that newsperson's body, and thus, you hit the camera, you have assulted the camera person. Niether police, firefighters nor EMTs have the right nor authority to tell me where I can and cant take pics with a few high security exceptions. A property owner has the right to tell me to leave his property....but I can still take shots of it from public property no matter what he says. Any person who seizes my camera, tape or memory card without a court order, has violated my constitutional rights and will be writing me a very large check in the near future. Not to mention that the person who took the camera may also have committed grand theft by depriving me of its use. That all being said, I do not take pics of victims if the face is visible..nor of dead victims at all, even covered with a sheet. The local fire and police know I can be trusted to use discretion and usually leave me alone. Someone needs to sit down and READ the HIPPA act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIPAA
 

As a Photographer for 25 years and a photographer of a variety of EMS calls. There were a few violations here. First there is no law keeping a photographer from photographing a patient in the public. But ambulances medics and firefighters will do their best to shield the identity of the person. But there are no laws against it. But once that person is at the hospital the hospital is private property and they will ask you to leave if you try to take pictures of the patient at the hospital. In many states and counties it is against the law to photograph or videotape inside government building and violators can have their camera seized and arrested. They usually bend over to accommodate legitimate media personnel.I am fairly sure taking pictures for your own website or utube would not be considered a legitimate news media and this guy screaming like he was didn't portray himself as a member of a legitimate media.I am very surprised they weren't arrested.I think before he goes on his next photographing spree he better read up on how liable he is. He could be sued by any person on that video because in order to use it as he is he would need model releases unless it is used for educational (textbooks) or editorial (TV news,newspapers, magazines).Utube is not considered editorial or educational.
The taking of the camera is theft amd the firefighter could have been arrested for that as well.In other words they both were wrong and I'm sure the police didn't know what to do
But just basically you can not take pictures or videotape inside a house without a model release or a person in the foreground or background without a release unless it is used for editorial or educational purposes
 

It is not a violation of HIPAA for someone to videotape a Firefighter or Paramedic performing official fire or EMS duties in public.

Here is the HIPAA Privacy FAQ:
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/index.html

Further, people can film and photograph you in public places while you perform your official duties. They can also freely publish those videos and photographs.

Grabbing cameras and pushing photographers is likely assualt and battery.

If bystanders, regardless of their camera or video equipment, are interfering with your operations on scene, utilize law enforcement to secure the scene properly and create a safe working environment for you and the patient.
 

Seems to me that the captain should take a look at this site.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/coveredentities/index.html

I don't recall seeing the media mentioned as a covered entity.
 

Some more thoughts-

"yes it is against hipps to take any pictures of a patient that show the face or anything that may idnetify the person no matter if its just a small cut or a major incident the 1st amendemnt dosent not protect this no matter where you happen to be standing."

Then you better lock me up and everyone I work with. While you are at it there are many fire department photographers and PIOs you might want to also put in cuffs (they often take these pictures but don't release them).

I am not sure where you are getting this information from but I hope your training on other issues is more accurate.

If anyone out there really thinks it is against the law for anyone, press or public, to take a picture of something going on in a public area, please send me those rules and regulations.

A few years ago I investigated this issue in depth in our Nation's Capital (security is one of our major industries here). For two stories about a year apart I sent an intern armed with a wireless mic and a disposable camera out to government buildings around Washington.

The misinformation across the city from security agencies was quite interesting. I contacted each of these agencies where our person was hassled and threatened (sometimes with arrest or confiscation of camera equipment). These included the US Capitol (no threats just some misinformation), the Marine Barracks, the Ronald Reagan Building, IRS, EPA, DOT and the FBI.

In the end not one agency could cite any laws or even regulations that prevented the activity of our intern. All of the agencies, plus the Department of Homeland Security (the misinformed kept citing DHS regs) in the end agreed that we are all in our rights to shoot pictures from a public place. I received most of the responses in writing. The only agency that would not acknowledge our rights was DOT.

One of the very few places where our intern was not hassled was walking up to the gates of The White House.

In fact, GSA contacted me and had been using our videos to train its security and police. (At one location a nice federal officer tried to show us the rules printed on the door and in the lobby of many public buildings that he thought prevented such picture taking. I read them and said to me it appears that it is telling us not only is there noting on the rules preventing me from shooting outside but I can come in the lobby and shoot without permission. His boss and the building manager said I was absolutely correct.)

To my good friend Tom Carter. What constitutes legitimate press anymore? Is it someone who writes a blog or has a "program" like this person on YouTube? I don't know if that has been settled from a legal standpoint. Again I am not a lawyer but I have been in plenty of legal seminars on this topic. I don't think anyone has a real expectation of privacy in a public place like this. I believe that would come into play in an issue like this.

And to the person who pointed out the cops could have stepped in, that is true. They certainly could have created an area that was off limits to everyone as part of handling this emergency (I have seen them do it where it was open to the public and not the press. I am not sure giving us fewer rights than the public is what the people who wrote the Constitution had in mind.)

I put this up just for this kind of discussion. It really is something to think about if your job tends to attract the news media and lots of cameras from the public.

Statter
 

EMS guy with the policemans haircut--it ain't your job to take the camera, get the cop to do it. I predict a few days off without pay and some retraining, and then maybe a deposition and a suit and tie in court.
EMS ya just gotta ignore these type people, it is quite possible they are egging you on to get a reaction. EMS guy you were a bigmouth bass on the end of this guys fishin line--you're the catch, he realed you right in and now you are famous.
WHen will we learn, when you do your job, be professional, especially when there are cameras around, and then even more so when you don't see any cameras (cause they probably are some somewhere)

Moral of the day--don't be a fish!!
 

That guy thinks he's real Press? What a tool bag, certainly not a professional. The EMS crew is trying to do their jobs and both camera men are right up in their faces. I might have reacted the same way. I can't blame the Captain, he did ask several times for the camera man to back off, which of course they didn't. I think they were looking for a confrontation and certainly got one.
 

Freekeene. com?

Freak'in hilarious.

Too bad that the Capt let the situation get to him. Really his only concern should have been with the patient. That would have helped to keep his focus narrower.

Sad too is how taking a camera/phone(?) away (temporarily) can be assault. But that's modern life. Just like it's a fact cameras are everywhere so....just do your job.

Note: 1/4 of Keene's population are college students and 38% of the population are younger than 24.

Dern those young people! Maybe they need something to do or....a real cause to fight for?

Btw, there's a forum on underage drinking on Oct 19th at the local highschool.

:)
 

Dave,
I agree the EMS crew over reacted. However, the cameramen were hardly professional. The difference beteween yourself and the "news reporters" in the video is that you can get the story while still being respectful and professional. I doubt seriously that in the course of doing a story you would get that close to an EMS or fire crew trying to do thir jobs.

The EMS crew did ask the camera crew to back off and they did not. While the EMS crew was wrong to react the way that they did, was it appropriate or even neccessary for the cameramen to get right up into the face of the EMS crew. If the camera men had been true professionals, there never would have been a confrontation and they still would have gotten the shots they wanted and the information they were requesting.

Besides, unlike the narrarator in the video, Dave you do not sound like a reporter who lives in his Mother's house and broadcasts out of the "basement of the science building."
 

"He could be sued by any person on that video because in order to use it as he is he would need model releases unless it is used for educational (textbooks) or editorial (TV news,newspapers, magazines).Utube is not considered editorial or educational."

The camera person's actions would most probably be considered 'editorial'. He is trying to make a political statement which is usually going to fall under the editorial use.

Youtube is only a means to show his work, but using that to display his video has no bearing on it's use.

The people in the video are in the public view at a public building, so they don't have too much of an expectation of privacy. Especially when they were outdoors on the facilities property.

He would only need a model release if he was going to use their image(s) commercially.
 

This post has been removed by the author.
 

Dave, why not post your commentary under the main article? Why post it in the comments where it is hidden?
 

HIPPA only covers persons stated in the Act as providers or persons transmitting medical information. A lay person taking video is not required to cover HIPPA, just like the news can cover a car accident.

The politics of the video aside, HIPPA doesn't enter into it aside from the Ambulance crew needing to simply say, "Under privacy laws I can not discuss patient condition."

THE END.
 

A Captain/Officer is to be a professional Mentor and a professional representative for his Department and profession.

Looks like this CAPTAIN is a little "badge heavy"
in his attitude with an extra helping of rage.!!

Staying cool in all situations is something this CAPTAIN should have learned by now.

It's just been documented that this CAPTAIN
needs some serious counseling. I hope he gets help before it gets worse.

I'm very concerned about the folks this CAPTAIN comes in contact with both on-duty and off-duty.
Someone may want to check the folks at home.
 

It amazes me how many people call this Capt. "badge heavy" and a "firehouse lawyer". Are you kidding me? This guy was trying to do his job and some hippy was jamming a camera in his face, bringing the EMT into a situation that he probably has no dealing with (local police brutality). What ever happened to that Capt's right to do his damn job without having some ass put him on the spot. Give the man his space to do his job or pay the consequences. Be lucky you didn't get clocked in the jaw Mr. Cameraman. I thought the guy kept his cool rather well.

And to the people talking the "he should have been concentrating on patient care" BS. It appeared to me that the guy was a rather stable BLS "assault" victim. He was boarded and collared. What else is there to concentrate on?

You "experienced" EMTs need to run more than 100 calls a year or work in an area where the public always know what you should be doing. Then you won't be so hard on this guy.
 

You want me to hold a blanket over the patient? I'm busy doing pt care. There is a time and place to film. You don't need shots of the pt's face.
These guys are inconsiderate.
 

I am suprised at how many Emergency workers are lawyers and how they mis-interpret HIPPA. This ACT has nothing to do with cameramen. It covers medical records of individuals. A picture of a person on a stretcher or pinned in a car from an accident is not covered under HIPPA. It protects your "FOLDER" in the filing cabinet located in a hospital or doctors office from people sharing the information contained within it without your CONSENT! The only law broken here is the assault on the cameraman, in which charges should be filed against the captain as it is against the law to even touch a reporters camera. Emergency workers need to get the facts straight before violating peoples rights! ARREST THE CAPTAIN!
 

To the person who asked about my commentary not being posted with the main article.

The first reason is that I have written about this topic and my experiences with it in a number of entries in the blog. I try not to bore people with it. I figured the people who are part of this discussion might have more interest in the topic. So I bore them.

Also, because as I hinted from the start I am still not sure what this is about. While it seems pretty clear what Captain Leslie did on video, there is certainly more to this story.

In fact, I did hear from Ron Leslie and had a very pleasant conversation. I hope to get more of his story.

I don't think anyone is going to get me to believe this was handled properly (and not just the FD), and that anyone had a right to take the camera, but the whole thing appears to raise some interesting issues. Some of which we have already touched on in the comments section.

I put the links up to the other site last night for people to get a more complete picture.

I am hoping that we get the full perspective from Ron Leslie or someone else who knows his story willing to go on the record.

I think these other issues surrounding this could also be good lessons for all of us.

More later (and likely on the main blog).

Statter
 

Dang it it's HIPAA. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. There's one P, two A's.

Face it, if you're so stupid you can't spell it right, you shouldn't be commenting on it.
 

Held his composure?? WHere in the world does it say its the EMT's job to grab personal items from bystanders? You have got to be kidding me. I guess we better get 3 man crews now for every accident or fire call we run so 1 guy can go around grabbing cameras off everybody. Just cause you ran 101 calls last year doesn't make you know more then the guy who ran 99.
This is a matter of common sense, if you run EMS, DO EMS, its none of your business who's taking pictures-IT AIN"T YOUR DAMN JOB!
 

its too bad the engine wasn't there.....those dirty hippie retards looked like they needed a shower!!! Or to meet the front bumper nozzle of ARFF truck!!!
 

Everyone needs to understand the patient is the ring leader for the Free Staters, (THE CAMERA CREW) go to the link above and read what these type of people are doing.

The scene footage is edited, they want you to see all governmental agencies as bad.

Totally ONE SIDED and out of control scene, anyone getting mobbed, (You physically being touched) would react the same.

Cops and Sheriffs did nothing because everything this group does is a MEDIA CIRCUS!!!
 

Dave,

These jerks are a poorly organized militia, they walk around town with guns on their hips... seeking confrontation with cameras nearby.

IMO: One step down from the assholes who knocked down the twin towers.
 

Statter,

So if I was filming say your bother and they had to cut her shirt off and her breast are out in the open for anyone with a camra, you wouldn't get mad? I sure the hell want to and yes HIPPA does protect a person's privacy.

No one is fighting your dumbass on freedom of speech or anything else like that. BUT you should be MAN enough to understand SICK/INJURIED people do not want to be video taped.
 

"So if I was filming say your bother and they had to cut her shirt off and her breast are out in the open for anyone with a camra, you wouldn't get mad? I sure the hell want to and yes HIPPA does protect a person's privacy.

No one is fighting your dumbass on freedom of speech or anything else like that. BUT you should be MAN enough to understand SICK/INJURIED people do not want to be video taped."

Hi this is "dumbass" responding,

First of all show me any local TV station that shows a naked breast on its news or an uncovered dead body (I can't even show a covered one).

Second, you may have one standard and someone else has another. What you are talking about is we are to go by the standards of individual firefighters or police officers telling us what we can or can not shoot based on what offends them.

I challenge you to show me anything in HIPAA that tells me as a reporter or photographer what I can shoot or show. It isn't there.

But I can show you a rather important and often cited document that allows me the freedom in this country to decide what I shoot in public places and what I report. In fact come to DC and we can go look at it together in its original form. I will even buy lunch.

I understand it may not be convenient at times to live in a country with such freedoms and it creates some issues we may not like, but I kind of like where we live.

Here is another challenge for you. If you don't like this freedom that allows me to decide when to roll my camera and not the firefighter, or police officer, or anyone else who happens to be standing in front of me, why not show me your rules. They would have to be something that applies uniformly and at all times and not at the whim of an individual.

Look forward to hearing back from you.

Statter
 

Hey Paramedic with a Brain-

You have to leave the four letter words out. I can't post them and am not allowed to edit them. So I have to reject them. This is still a TV station's website.

I am not offended, but there are some rules I must follow.

Thanks.
 

So some guy with a camara phone is a reporter? WRONG. He is someone that is trying to add another post to his YouTube account. That is not news. If you ask me he was way overboard in his action. His first mistake was thinking he was a reporter, his second was yelling questions at the EMT's, and third he appears to have no respect for anyone because he keep filming after he was asked not to. For those that see nothing wrong with this please ask yourself this question. Would you like your family member being fimled if they where on that cot?