Wednesday, October 7, 2009
No fatalities in sprinklered homes in Prince George's County since 1992 mandate. Study looks at first county in country to enact law.
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Watch sprinkler demonstration and interviews (or here)
Jim Estepp says his boss, at first, thought that Estepp had lost his mind. But it didn't take long for Prince George's County Executive Parris Glendening to be convinced enough to take the fire chief's idea of mandatory sprinklers to the County Council.The year was 1987, and just like today, Estepp says there was strong opposition from the home building industry. "I remember the Washington Post editorial that said if you adopt this ordinance somebody is going to be fixing breakfast and they are going to get wet".
Despite opposition, Prince George's County became the first county in the country to mandate sprinklers in all new single-family homes. The requirement was phased in by 1992.
Now, a new study puts a big smile on the face of Estepp, who later became public safety director and a council member. It shows no one has died from a fire in any of those sprinklered homes. In the same 15-year period covered by the study, 101 people died in county homes without sprinklers.
"We said it was going to save lives and 20-years-later we were proved to be exactly right", Estepp said during a sprinkler demonstration Wednesday at the Maryland Fire and Rescue Institute (MFRI) in College Park.
MFRI's director, Steve Edwards, was the PGFD chief in 1992 when the law took effect. Edwards says their study of fire fatalities showed as good as the fire department was, and as fast as they responded, it was not good enough.
The report, covering the years 1992 to 2007, was prepared by Steve Weatherby, a captain at the Lutherville Volunteer Fire Company in Baltimore County, as part of his studies at the University of Maryland University College. It was produced in cooperation with the Home Fire Sprinkler Coalition, PGFD and the Maryland State Fire Marshal's Office.
According to the study, there were only six injuries in 245 fires in the sprinklered homes. In the more than 13,000 fires in non-spinklered homes there were 328 injuries.
"The data is very clear", according to Eugene Jones, PGFD's current chief. Even though the issue was fought in his county long before he took office, Chief Jones believes the study could help as the International Code Council again considers the issue on October 28 in Baltimore. Homebuilders are trying to reverse a victory for the fire service last year in Minneapolis.
The National Association of Homebuilders (NAHB) has long advocated that residential sprinklers should not be mandatory. They have cited added costs to new homes, water damage and concerns that the sprinklers aren't proven. NAHB was contacted for this story, but did not respond by deadline.
In Wednesday's demonstration Maryland State Fire Marshal Bill Barnard point to the limited damage in the sprinklered room compared to an identical room without a sprinkler. The study shows that on average a fire in a sprinklered home caused $4883 in property loss compared to $9983 in a non-sprinklered home. That number jumps to almost $50,000 in homes where there was a fire fatality.
Another former Prince George's County fire chief at the demonstration, Ron Siarnicki, says it isn't only about the safety of the public. Currently the executive director of the National Fallen Firefighters Foundation, Siarnicki makes the point that firefighters lives can also be saved by residential sprinklers.
MFRI's Edwards believes a sprinkler system is like having a firefighter in your home.
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This is clearly one of the great accomplishments of Prince George's County. Not only has it saved the lives of citizens, but no doubt firefighters as well. I am dumbfounded why this message is not part of every statement when a fire fatality occurs. Often the reference to smoke detectors is made (battery missing, not installed, etc), but rarely is there any mention of residential sprinklers. The fire that leveled the Cafritz home in DC was great opportunity to promote residential sprinklers - even retrofitting in homes that are of high value. I just don't get it.
# posted by 
: October 7, 2009 9:30 PM
: October 7, 2009 9:30 PM
Protecting your most precious valuables, your family, with the most advanced life safety system! Commonsense, is getting a Residential Sprinkler System in your home.
# posted by : October 7, 2009 11:30 PM
: October 7, 2009 11:30 PM
There is no doubt that a sprinkler in a building will prevent, or at least drastically reduce, the loss of life in that building.
However, a sprinkler LAW, may not be as effective.
A sprinkler law increases the cost of new homes, however worthwhile they may be. This means that some marginal new homebuyers won't buy a new home, and will, instead, continue to reside wherever they are. This means that marginal home renters will not move up to a newer home, and will instead live in older-substandard (even without sprinklers) homes, and that some more people will continue to be homeless - and suffer worse injury and death rates than even those who live in unsprinklered homes.
Further, every code "improvement" that has included sprinkler provisions that reduce the quality of the structure - lightweight trusses, etc.
So, flame away, but here's one very well educated professional firefighter who thinks that everyone should specify sprinklers in a new home, but that no one should be required by law to install them in new single family residences.
However, a sprinkler LAW, may not be as effective.
A sprinkler law increases the cost of new homes, however worthwhile they may be. This means that some marginal new homebuyers won't buy a new home, and will, instead, continue to reside wherever they are. This means that marginal home renters will not move up to a newer home, and will instead live in older-substandard (even without sprinklers) homes, and that some more people will continue to be homeless - and suffer worse injury and death rates than even those who live in unsprinklered homes.
Further, every code "improvement" that has included sprinkler provisions that reduce the quality of the structure - lightweight trusses, etc.
So, flame away, but here's one very well educated professional firefighter who thinks that everyone should specify sprinklers in a new home, but that no one should be required by law to install them in new single family residences.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 7:30 AM
: October 8, 2009 7:30 AM
Now if other Government bodies wouldn't act like the nuetered guy in "The Wizard of Oz" who sang, "If I only had some balls.", and enact this legislation throughout this country, the USA would be a better place. I don't understand how the people involved in homebuilding fight this--the plumbers would have more work. MAybe its because not as many homes would burn down and they could rebuild them?? I guess theres a reason why some people don't care if people burn to death in their own homes--somebody tell me what that reason is please.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 8:07 AM
: October 8, 2009 8:07 AM
Funny how they didnt do any studies on how much money it cost to repair furniture, pictures, floors when the sprinklers accidently go off in a house. Of all the houses that had sprinklers in them since 1992, how many of those homes actually had a fire in them?? This is going to turn out to be what was once a small fire on a stove to a flood out moldy kitchen. I think it would be a lot better to mandate fire alarms in homes. And while they are at it, why dont they mandate burgler bars on every home so that nobody can get burglerized or murdered. Or they could make cars that dont go over 25 mph. Where is it going to stop?
# posted by : October 8, 2009 8:28 AM
: October 8, 2009 8:28 AM
funny how theydidn't do studies on how many homes have no smoke detectors, detectors without batteries, etc etc etc.
In the automotive industry there are improvements in occupant safety every year and every year less people die in crashes--the reason is mandated safety improvements in vehicle construction-air bags everywhere, crush zones, side impact strength, seat belt technology, safety headrests-etc etc etc etc etc---yeh the price of cars go up, but we can walk away from the crash or have minor to moderate injury--not death. Do I hear the rescue companies crying cause we get less entrapment calls??? NO. Iguess its just the Engine and Ladder companies that are on here bitchin about sprinklers putting them out of business.
Must I remind every firefighter on this board--Our #1 priority is LIFE SAFETY. If you don't fully back every tool available to safe civilian and our own lives--you are in the wrong business--go work at Burger King where you can watch the burgers get flame broiled so you can get your kicks.
In the automotive industry there are improvements in occupant safety every year and every year less people die in crashes--the reason is mandated safety improvements in vehicle construction-air bags everywhere, crush zones, side impact strength, seat belt technology, safety headrests-etc etc etc etc etc---yeh the price of cars go up, but we can walk away from the crash or have minor to moderate injury--not death. Do I hear the rescue companies crying cause we get less entrapment calls??? NO. Iguess its just the Engine and Ladder companies that are on here bitchin about sprinklers putting them out of business.
Must I remind every firefighter on this board--Our #1 priority is LIFE SAFETY. If you don't fully back every tool available to safe civilian and our own lives--you are in the wrong business--go work at Burger King where you can watch the burgers get flame broiled so you can get your kicks.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 9:14 AM
: October 8, 2009 9:14 AM
What happened on Jenkins Ridge Rd in 43's area last year? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe there was a fatal fire in a house with a sprinkler system there last year.
If you read the report and do the math, the ratio of injuries to fires is ALMOST IDENTICAL between sprinkler fires and non-sprinkler fires. The report emphasizes and reiterates "only 6 injuries," but there were only 245 fires with sprinklers.
6/245 = 2.48%
The 328 non-sprinkler fire injuries seems like a lot at first, but not when you are considering 13217 fires.
328/13217 = 2.45%
Throw in the Jenkins Ridge fire death and the death ratios are within half a percent of each other.
I am all for sprinklers in multi-family apartment buildings where residents don't have control of the other people living in a building. If you are building a new single family home, you should have the option to put a sprinkler system in the house. Do you sue the government when a sprinkler pipe bursts causing 10's of thousands dollars water damage because they mandated it? The only part of me that doesn't mind seeing sprinklers is in the lightweight construction area is the firefighter side of me. Two of my friends went through the floor into the basement during a fire in a cheaply built, multimillion dollar house and were lucky to survive.
Once again, smoke and mirrors are being used to justify another government mandate which costs true taxpaying citizens more money.
If you read the report and do the math, the ratio of injuries to fires is ALMOST IDENTICAL between sprinkler fires and non-sprinkler fires. The report emphasizes and reiterates "only 6 injuries," but there were only 245 fires with sprinklers.
6/245 = 2.48%
The 328 non-sprinkler fire injuries seems like a lot at first, but not when you are considering 13217 fires.
328/13217 = 2.45%
Throw in the Jenkins Ridge fire death and the death ratios are within half a percent of each other.
I am all for sprinklers in multi-family apartment buildings where residents don't have control of the other people living in a building. If you are building a new single family home, you should have the option to put a sprinkler system in the house. Do you sue the government when a sprinkler pipe bursts causing 10's of thousands dollars water damage because they mandated it? The only part of me that doesn't mind seeing sprinklers is in the lightweight construction area is the firefighter side of me. Two of my friends went through the floor into the basement during a fire in a cheaply built, multimillion dollar house and were lucky to survive.
Once again, smoke and mirrors are being used to justify another government mandate which costs true taxpaying citizens more money.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 9:38 AM
: October 8, 2009 9:38 AM
I am just curious for Anonymous. Where is your proof of the sprinkler systems that have burst and caused so much damage in homes? "Thousands" My experience has been that if that happens it is caused by other factors and definitely not the "sprinkler's fault." Maybe you need help though in understanding. If you do not replace your car brakes you will hit another car. If you do not clean your furnace you will eventually ruin the furnace prematurely. If you fail to maintain heat in your house you will burst a sprinkler AND the rest of your water system. Now I have sprinklers in my house for five years and I live in a very cold area. Since I try to reduce accidents and also I do maintenance in my home I tend to not have the "burst sprinkler." Sprinklers save FFs lives. Obviously you do not care.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 10:20 AM
: October 8, 2009 10:20 AM
I think my brother's, roomate's, mom's hairdresser heard it from the pastor's son's x-girlfriends brother. So if you know him you know it has to be true. Annonymous.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 10:48 AM
: October 8, 2009 10:48 AM
10:20,
My problem doesn't lie within sprinklers themselves, my problem lies within the government MANDATING them on single family houses. With you analogy, I see it differently. I agree that if you don't replace your brakes, you will hit another car. That is not the issue. The issue would be comparable to the government mandating you replace your car brakes every two years. Make sense?
In terms of water damage, I have seen multiple instances where $10k is way short of the actual damage amount. The last sprinkler failure I saw easily did more than $100k damage to the structure and contents (if I had to guess it was probably closer to $250k). It occurred during the summer and obviously was unrelated to not heating the pipes properly. Congrats on keeping yours in working order and I'm glad you haven't had any kind of activation (good or bad).
I am beginning to look at the mandatory sprinklers like abortions. I am absolutely not 'anti-sprinkler'. Sprinklers can be great. I am also not 'pro-sprinkler' in the sense that I don't believe everyone should be required to have them. My belief for new single family homes would be considered PRO-CHOICE. It should be up with the person buying/building the new single-family house whether they want to have it or not.
9:38
My problem doesn't lie within sprinklers themselves, my problem lies within the government MANDATING them on single family houses. With you analogy, I see it differently. I agree that if you don't replace your brakes, you will hit another car. That is not the issue. The issue would be comparable to the government mandating you replace your car brakes every two years. Make sense?
In terms of water damage, I have seen multiple instances where $10k is way short of the actual damage amount. The last sprinkler failure I saw easily did more than $100k damage to the structure and contents (if I had to guess it was probably closer to $250k). It occurred during the summer and obviously was unrelated to not heating the pipes properly. Congrats on keeping yours in working order and I'm glad you haven't had any kind of activation (good or bad).
I am beginning to look at the mandatory sprinklers like abortions. I am absolutely not 'anti-sprinkler'. Sprinklers can be great. I am also not 'pro-sprinkler' in the sense that I don't believe everyone should be required to have them. My belief for new single family homes would be considered PRO-CHOICE. It should be up with the person buying/building the new single-family house whether they want to have it or not.
9:38
# posted by : October 8, 2009 10:51 AM
: October 8, 2009 10:51 AM
Dave,
It would be intrested to go back to the time smoke detectors were introduced. I belive that the NAHB were against them with the same argurments. as for sprinklers failing they do when humans fool around with them.
As for cost if the builder did not add an very large profit over and above the instillation cost there would be no problem. the builders in p.g. said no one would build in the county if this sprinkler law was enacted time has proved them wrong on each objection
It would be intrested to go back to the time smoke detectors were introduced. I belive that the NAHB were against them with the same argurments. as for sprinklers failing they do when humans fool around with them.
As for cost if the builder did not add an very large profit over and above the instillation cost there would be no problem. the builders in p.g. said no one would build in the county if this sprinkler law was enacted time has proved them wrong on each objection
# posted by : October 8, 2009 11:32 AM
: October 8, 2009 11:32 AM
Using the logic that other have presented against sprinklers, I guess we should ban hot water heaters, toilets and plumbing because they will cause water damage. I would bet that there are more homes damaged every year from water heaters and backed up toilets than there are from sprinklers. Don't forget to ban furnaces because they may cause fires and stoves will cause fires too. Get rid of your smoke detectors because they may be radioactive. But continue to store gasoline in your garage for your lawn mower. After all, gas fumes never ignite when they get close to a water heater. Common sense seems to be lacking in the whole argument.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 12:00 PM
: October 8, 2009 12:00 PM
Firefighters speaking against sprinklers leads me to a huge WTF!
Or are you really firefighters or are you just wannabe posers?
Let me guess, you also don't believe that lightweight wooden trusses or lightweight engineered I beams are a problem to firefighters.
Do the fire service a favor and go work mowing lawns. Firefighters with your attitudes make you the modern day Fire Department dinosaur. You live in the past, wearn dayboots and "breathing smoke", sitting sround the station table telling old stories of past glory, thinking that the way you did it in 1957 is the way it should be done now. Time to crawl into the tarpit where you belong.
(Note-check your calendar, its almost 2010!!)
Or are you really firefighters or are you just wannabe posers?
Let me guess, you also don't believe that lightweight wooden trusses or lightweight engineered I beams are a problem to firefighters.
Do the fire service a favor and go work mowing lawns. Firefighters with your attitudes make you the modern day Fire Department dinosaur. You live in the past, wearn dayboots and "breathing smoke", sitting sround the station table telling old stories of past glory, thinking that the way you did it in 1957 is the way it should be done now. Time to crawl into the tarpit where you belong.
(Note-check your calendar, its almost 2010!!)
# posted by : October 8, 2009 12:11 PM
: October 8, 2009 12:11 PM
WOW and people think us up North are behind the times. Just goes to show you some in Maryland are still marrying their sisters.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 12:13 PM
: October 8, 2009 12:13 PM
I guess all those PGFD members who thought it was that they were great firefighters that should be atributed to the lower fatality rate now know the real reason. Time to get new helmets 3 sizes smaller.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 12:15 PM
: October 8, 2009 12:15 PM
WHoever made the decision to mandate sprinklers should be honored in a big way. They truly are heroes.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 12:16 PM
: October 8, 2009 12:16 PM
"What happened on Jenkins Ridge Rd in 43's area last year? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe there was a fatal fire in a house with a sprinkler system there last year."
You are not wrong. A woman did die in a sprinklered house on Jenkins Ridge Road. But I am wondering if the fact that she was murdered before the fire and the sprinkler system had been disabled prior to the fire breaking out had something to do with this rather than a failure of sprinklers?
I covered that story.
Here's a question for everyone from a reporter who sees the aftermath of many of these fires. How many post 1992 single-family or townhomes have burned to the ground in Prince George's County?
Now ask the same question in Montgomery County, Fairfax County or other jurisdictions around the region where there is no sprinkler mandate or it came much later than in Prince George's.
I know it is only anecdotal information, but when you talk about damage, my impression is there have been a lot more of the lightweight construction house fires in the other jurisdictions that have only foundations left than in Prince George's County. It might be intersesting for someone to study to study those stats.
Statter
You are not wrong. A woman did die in a sprinklered house on Jenkins Ridge Road. But I am wondering if the fact that she was murdered before the fire and the sprinkler system had been disabled prior to the fire breaking out had something to do with this rather than a failure of sprinklers?
I covered that story.
Here's a question for everyone from a reporter who sees the aftermath of many of these fires. How many post 1992 single-family or townhomes have burned to the ground in Prince George's County?
Now ask the same question in Montgomery County, Fairfax County or other jurisdictions around the region where there is no sprinkler mandate or it came much later than in Prince George's.
I know it is only anecdotal information, but when you talk about damage, my impression is there have been a lot more of the lightweight construction house fires in the other jurisdictions that have only foundations left than in Prince George's County. It might be intersesting for someone to study to study those stats.
Statter
So you are worried about the cost of sprinklers. Right?
Dont want to pay for them?
Does your car have ABS? or Airbags? or traction control? or an alarm? Did you pay extra for those items? Did you pay for them because you knew the cost was worth the benefit?
I did and I can say yes.
Id rather have a house full of water with wet carpet, warped flooring etc, then a big pile of embers. PG has made their share of parking lots. So why not?
And for the smoke detectors.. Give me a F*cking break. So the smoke detector goes off, now you are just aware of the fire, that is still doubling in size every minute. The sprinkler may not extinguish the fire, but it will keep it in check. For me its worth the risk..
Dont want sprinklers then I tell you what dont call 911 when your house catches on fire.
Dont want to pay for them?
Does your car have ABS? or Airbags? or traction control? or an alarm? Did you pay extra for those items? Did you pay for them because you knew the cost was worth the benefit?
I did and I can say yes.
Id rather have a house full of water with wet carpet, warped flooring etc, then a big pile of embers. PG has made their share of parking lots. So why not?
And for the smoke detectors.. Give me a F*cking break. So the smoke detector goes off, now you are just aware of the fire, that is still doubling in size every minute. The sprinkler may not extinguish the fire, but it will keep it in check. For me its worth the risk..
Dont want sprinklers then I tell you what dont call 911 when your house catches on fire.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 7:46 PM
: October 8, 2009 7:46 PM
"The issue would be comparable to the government mandating you replace your car brakes every two years."
Well...they kinda do...Ever get a vehicle safety inspection sticker without brakes? Didn't think so...
Hell let's just get rid of NEC too...just wire it all with 14ga AL...
Spriklers = Water on the fire quicker than the FD can = Under Control = Safer for FF's and victims. Nothing to debate.
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Well...they kinda do...Ever get a vehicle safety inspection sticker without brakes? Didn't think so...
Hell let's just get rid of NEC too...just wire it all with 14ga AL...
Spriklers = Water on the fire quicker than the FD can = Under Control = Safer for FF's and victims. Nothing to debate.
# posted by : October 8, 2009 10:41 PM
: October 8, 2009 10:41 PM Links to this post:
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