Friday, May 29, 2009
UPDATE: Oklahoma troopers officially identified. Medic seen being choked tells more in a comment posted on a website. Read Maurice White's response.
Click here and then scroll down for the latest fire and EMS news from STATter911.com
June 16 update: Paramedic White says Trooper Martin should have badge and gun taken away
More STATter911.com coverage: Trooper's lawyer says medic is danger to the community; Dash cam video released; Fox News interviews EMS crew & Trooper Martin; Trooper on administrative leave; No charges filed by DA; EMT-B Paul Franks speaks out; Read statements from Toopers Martin & Iker; Troopers identified; Statements from witnesses and the patient; Reaction from police officers; Statements from EMS crew.
Tulsa World's Manny Gamallo, like other reporters, has been making requests of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol though the state's Open Records Act. Originally OHP refused to divulge the names of the troopers involved in last Sunday's incident claiming confidentiality while internal affairs investigators reviewed the case. On Friday OHP Capt. Chris West responded to Gamallo's request and officially identified the troopers as Daniel Martin and Bryan Iker.
Here are excerpts from Gamallo's latest story:
Still unresolved is the release of incident reports the troopers may have written after their encounter with Creek Nation paramedics at Paden, located east of Prague, in Okfuskee County.
West said he was unsure whether the troopers wrote incident reports on the encounter, but noted he would check and then consult with the OHP's lawyers to determine if they can be released.
The OHP has turned over details of the incident to the prosecutor in Okfuskee County to determine if charges will be filed in the case.
Assistant District Attorney Maxey Reilly said Friday it may be next week before she decides what charges, if any, will be filed. She did note, though, that the interference with paramedics in the performance of their duties is against the law in Oklahoma.
But Reilly would not say if the troopers would be charged with that violation.
Meanwhile, news accounts about the scuffle have generated headlines around the world. In fact, Reilly noted, video film shot during the scuffle is now the No. 2 most-watched video on YouTube. (Note: As of 5:30 AM EDT on Saturday the video above, posted by sustainablehome, had more than 600,000 views and almost 6,000 comments.)
Paramedic White and his partner, EMT-B Paul Franks, provided detailed written statements about the incident. Now White has given a few additional thoughts in a comment posted to a forum on KTUL-TV's website. The station verified the comments are from White.
The medic was responding to the comment below posted on Thursday evening:
CowboyXXX wrote: 1st off what respectable Paramedic would get abandon his patient in the back of the ambulance to argue with an officer that was gonna ticket this partner. One key thing is if you have a bad patient in the back of your truck you will run lights and sirens. 2nd if an officer is gonna ticket you take the ticket and argue it in a court of law.
Here is Critical Care Paramedic Maurice White Jr's response to CowboyXXX submitted early Friday morning:
Hi,
I do not plan to respond to any comments other that this one. Healthy skepticism is a good thing. My employer has released the statements produced by me and my partner. Our statements may be false, but please at least read them since this station was so kind as to post them in their entirety. Next, I know that it is difficult to remain objective when dealing with emotionally charged issues. I assure you that time and the trooper’s dash cam will clarify everything.
To the person quoted above, if you will read the statement you will note that it was the fact that the trooper was approached at such a high rate of speed, and driving so erratically, I assumed that the woman in the front seat of the cruiser dressed in civilian clothing needed immediate help. That is why I initially stepped from the rear of the unit.
Also please note that in most cases, only the most critical patients are transported with lights and sirens. In addition, I do not have the option to run lights only. Please do a little research on the affects of running code one with a cardiac patient. Btw, if you read the report, you will find that the patient had an episode of syncope followed by chest pain with hypertension. This was not heat related as has been stated elsewhere.
I assure you, the last thing I could ever be convicted, or accused of is poor or negligent patient care. EVEN MY MOST ARDENT DETRACTORS WOULD NEVER ACUSE ME OF THAT SIN. I am well known for the quality of patient care that I render!
Please forgive if this comes off as bragging. I can remain calm while being chocked; I do not tolerate aspersions cased upon the quality care I give on a daily basis. I have served as an active, field medic for thirty-one years; twenty-six years at the paramedic level. I have never had a patient complaint! Can you match that sir?
Thank you,
Grace and Peace
Maurice White, Jr.
Critical Care Paramedic
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Mr. White is a outstanding Paramedic & a exceptional man. I am a medic as well, and I would love to have the talent & skills that Mr. White possess. Please do not judge his work ethic's nor his patient care. He is a wonderful Paramedic & man. I applaud his ability to handle himself as he did. As for the troopers involved, I wonder what they would have done if they witnessed the same situation with the role reversed & their mother was in the back of the ambulance. I adore both departments & the services that they provide us, but I think that it is time that we all suck up pride ( to a point) and remember why we are in this line of work.
I know why you were so calm and collected when you were being choked by the trooper because through it all you had your mind solely on the care and well being of the patient. It shows how much of a professional you are and did not let emotions get in the way.
I hope these State Troopers see how embarrassing their actions were. As a fellow CA Paramedic, we do know the importance of pulling to the right with sirens & lights. What's really sad, there were no winners. These Troopers, who were responding to another call, were angry that the EMT hadn't pulled over, which hindered them from doing their job. So they in turn, pulled the ambulance over and prevented a lady from getting medical care by a Physician and hindered Paramedic White from doing his job! WOW! If my ambulance had been pulled over, I would have been just as fustrated. Maurice White's reaction spoke volumes of his passion for patient care. Personally, I feel Paramedic White never compromised patient care when he stepped out of the ambulance. Any caring EMS worker, who might wonder what's the hold up, would have stepped out, spoke up & be a voice for the patient.
From California, I send you a tequila shot Maurice.
From California, I send you a tequila shot Maurice.
Mr. White.. I thank you for your service and good character. I wish there were more people like you in the world who can stand up for whats right. My own experiences with the Oklahoma Highway Patrol and Oklahoma Law Enforcement in General, over a number of years, only tells me that they are still out of control and running wild with there methodic abuses.
# posted by 
: May 30, 2009 3:55 AM
: May 30, 2009 3:55 AM
By watching the video and seeing your written account and this response, not only can I tell that you are a really good medic, I can tell you are a true gentleman. I know you understand what a high compliment that is. Keep the faith. Accept the support of all of us up at Station 60. PA EMT
# posted by : May 30, 2009 6:15 AM
: May 30, 2009 6:15 AM
After watching this, it is hard not to hate these cops shown in the video.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 6:54 AM
: May 30, 2009 6:54 AM
I am a Captain/Paramedic that has worked in this area for years, I also know that once the dash cam and the audio recorded by both the Troopers wireless microphones will cause everyone to question Mr. White. Further more I would have suspended any of my medics who would have got out of the back of the ambulance and left a patient alone. I would have never done that and I think the medics that think it is ok for the medic to get out of the back of unit to engage a trooper was absoluetly crazy and should question what they think is good patient care. I can't wait to hear how this ends.
Joe
Captain/Paramedic
Kansas
Joe
Captain/Paramedic
Kansas
# posted by : May 30, 2009 6:55 AM
: May 30, 2009 6:55 AM
I sure hope that after all is said and done and God prevails and everything can be resolved to the point that everyone is happy with the outcome. We ALL try to do our jobs to the best of our ability and when that is disrupted we get frustrated. I do believe God will prevail and this WILL be put to rest.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 10:23 AM
: May 30, 2009 10:23 AM
I have read his statement several times, so am I the only reads what he said, where he states "Our statements may be false," is he then not admitting that he made a false statement in his report? Seems a bit of guilty coming out on behalf of the paramedic and EMT on the unit.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 10:39 AM
: May 30, 2009 10:39 AM
Why does everyone miss the part where White shoved his beefy elbow into the officer's throat?? I'm surprised they didn't (rightfully) arrest him.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 10:57 AM
: May 30, 2009 10:57 AM
Those cops were just being bullys... but thats typical cop behaviour. Sorry for the EMTs --- no wonder cops have a bad name. I hope they lose their jobs.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 11:57 AM
: May 30, 2009 11:57 AM
Good luck Mr. White. The troopers in question should have never stopped an ambulance to begin with (unless it was stolen, which I have seen before). Their lack of professionalism is obvious from the video recording. I wonder what part of their training included "choke-holds on non-combative EMS workers who are administering patient care"? Thank you, Mr. White, for all of your years of service.
E. Byrd
Shift Supervisor/Firefighter/EMT
North Carolina
E. Byrd
Shift Supervisor/Firefighter/EMT
North Carolina
# posted by : May 30, 2009 12:01 PM
: May 30, 2009 12:01 PM
I am a little curious as to why the trooper stopped at all if he was in "hot pursuit" to back-up the sheriff???? The one time I did not pull to the right for a police officer...(radio was too loud) he got on his loud speaker as he zoomed past me and told me to read my driver's manual. Obviously, he was in hot pursuit, (not of me), and probably realized I was just an idiot not paying attention and the emergency he was headed to was more important than pointing out my mistake. Things have changed quite a bit and we are all worried about being "politically correct". Thanks to cameras on cell phones, GPS systems, etc., the whole world can be sure we are politically correct and can call us out on each and every mistake. God bless to both parties.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 12:02 PM
: May 30, 2009 12:02 PM
This story has made me so angry. As a fellow paramedic in Tx, I hope everything turns out for you. A situation like this happened in La Porte Tx a few years ago and the medic was cleared. Again, I hope everything works out for you.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 12:16 PM
: May 30, 2009 12:16 PM
I just saw the video today, read the reports, and as well visited the board where Mr. White makes that reply to that one individual. Karma will come catch up to the OHP that pulled over the EMT. Hopefully, Mr. White will be in the area to respond and just let the OHP suffer agonizing minutes the way the patient in the ambulance had to. Nothing like that ever happens here in the state of VA...sad to see a OHP abuse his power.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 12:46 PM
: May 30, 2009 12:46 PM
I give Mr. White the utmost respect and I feel that-at least based on the statements i have read- he is dealing with this situation in a very professional way. Consider also the way he restrained himself from attacking the officers even after being treated like sh*t.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 12:59 PM
: May 30, 2009 12:59 PM
To Joe
Captain/Paramedic
Kansas
Did you not understand that the Paramedic was essentially ordered out when the officer told him he was under arrest?
God help the folks where ever it is you claim to be a Capt/Paramedic....your observation skills are highly questionable....
DeAnna, AZ ER RN
Captain/Paramedic
Kansas
Did you not understand that the Paramedic was essentially ordered out when the officer told him he was under arrest?
God help the folks where ever it is you claim to be a Capt/Paramedic....your observation skills are highly questionable....
DeAnna, AZ ER RN
# posted by : May 30, 2009 2:07 PM
: May 30, 2009 2:07 PM
I hope people see how some Police Officers treat others when they are at work. Many people (ignorant folk) think all cops are good. That is NOT true. Many are crooked or ego-maniacs or just plain dumb as hell. Hopefully, these pigs from Oklahoma will be FIRED or forced to desk work. We can't have stupid men and women working as cops in America. There need to be more stringent intelligence tests given to cops before they start and while they are on the force. The job is too important for the average dumb ass to have; and our country is too diverse for non-thinkers to have power (hence Sarah Palin losing her lil' light, thank GOD). Be smart America, speak out when you see B.S. YOU COULD BE THE NEXT VICTIM.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 2:15 PM
: May 30, 2009 2:15 PM
Two things,
What does EMTP White mean by "Our statements may be false"?
Secondly, I have seen several comments about the day when the trooper may need EMS. It is stated or implied that these medics should ignore the call for help. NO WAY, you can bet these very same medics would do everything possible to help these very same Troopers if the time arrises. That's why we are in EMS. We help our fellow man no matter what.
What does EMTP White mean by "Our statements may be false"?
Secondly, I have seen several comments about the day when the trooper may need EMS. It is stated or implied that these medics should ignore the call for help. NO WAY, you can bet these very same medics would do everything possible to help these very same Troopers if the time arrises. That's why we are in EMS. We help our fellow man no matter what.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 2:35 PM
: May 30, 2009 2:35 PM
I've just seen this coverage on you tube and I am totally disgusted with the treatment Mr White suffered at the hands of the cops. The whole thing was totally unnecessary and put the cops in a really bad light, no wonder people hate cops so much if this is how they choose to behave, whatever happened to protecting the innocents? Good luck to you Mr White, I'm behind you all the way!
# posted by : May 30, 2009 3:22 PM
: May 30, 2009 3:22 PM
I wroked a few years with Mr White and I know him. I'm fairly frustrated with the treatment that Mr White got aat the hands of the OHP officer. Shameless behaviour arresting a Paramedic whilst in the course of his duty... Where will this abuse end??? I was at an accident scene in OK, when I worked there, and cars were passing by on the Interstate doing 70 mph plus and an OHP officer moved my ambulance to clear his precious lane and one of our first responders got hit by a car. Needless to say I think that these officers need to be educated in how to treat others.
Andrew Simpson
NREMTP TCAD EMS
Andrew Simpson
NREMTP TCAD EMS
# posted by : May 30, 2009 4:04 PM
: May 30, 2009 4:04 PM
It was a sad situation. The crew was doing their job and some hyper trooper decided to mess with them. This case it was showed to the world what we face almost every day. Law enforcement allways get the high praise regardless the poor decisions they make every day, but in the law enforcement world they never do wrong, the public is allways at fault. I to came to face with similar situations with law enforcement while I was doing my job as a EMS professional was not as bad as it happen to this crew. We in the EMS world do face same danger as the law enforcement, we allways are the ones that risk our lifes for the people in need. But who gets all the medals and front page? COPS..
We are in this professional field because we care for people not for the glory, Law enforcement is just for the power.
Mr. White handle himself as a true profesional regardless the situation he was facing, and is a true partner protecting him from the thugs. Mr White I will ride with you any time. You are a better man than that trooper.
Mr White I applaude you
SIncerely
EMT Batista/NJ
We are in this professional field because we care for people not for the glory, Law enforcement is just for the power.
Mr. White handle himself as a true profesional regardless the situation he was facing, and is a true partner protecting him from the thugs. Mr White I will ride with you any time. You are a better man than that trooper.
Mr White I applaude you
SIncerely
EMT Batista/NJ
# posted by : May 30, 2009 5:42 PM
: May 30, 2009 5:42 PM
Lee House,
I can't tell if you are really making a post, or of it is all a joke.
But my favorite line in your post has to be;
"The job is too important for the average dumb ass to have" - Lee House
I couldn't agree more, only the above average (and here I mean top 10%) of dumb asses should be allowed to wear the badge. Lee, I can only hope that you are in charge of administering said intelligence test.
I've been told that I am a perfect a$$hole on numerous occasions, so I eagerly await the location I should post my resume to.
I can't tell if you are really making a post, or of it is all a joke.
But my favorite line in your post has to be;
"The job is too important for the average dumb ass to have" - Lee House
I couldn't agree more, only the above average (and here I mean top 10%) of dumb asses should be allowed to wear the badge. Lee, I can only hope that you are in charge of administering said intelligence test.
I've been told that I am a perfect a$$hole on numerous occasions, so I eagerly await the location I should post my resume to.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 5:55 PM
: May 30, 2009 5:55 PM
You know this just shows what happens when cops think they are all knowing and godlike. They are not above the law nor should they be able to get away with this. I have friends who are cops and they were even disgusted by what they seen. If the emergency the cops were in was so big why did they stop the ambulance in the first place. Like my friends here said they had way to much ego especially choking someone let alone a ems worker who was just doin his job in the first place. My friends here said if someone looked in their file you would probably find more of this in these officers backgrounds. But even Here we have had situations like that where a cop decides he can be god and we have to bow down to them and do what they say. We have one here in kansas now that is being charged with forcing a woman to have sex with him to get out of aarrest. Thats is pathetic. Like i said i do have a couple of friends who are cops who say the same thing and it just disgusts them how many times cops like this get away with it. except now we have you tube in cases like these i am glad we do. Cops like this give good ones a bad name they really need to be stopped and stronger evaluations taken for new officers wanting to join.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 6:11 PM
: May 30, 2009 6:11 PM
The whole world is watching this video right now. Regardless of what some claim will exonerate the Highway Patrol Officer from the dash cam footage, the video speaks for itself.
There is absolutely no way to justify the way the officer chokes the paramedic. Its unarguably obvious the police officer completely loses his temper, becoming irrational and violent.
Whatever part of Oklahoma this happened in is now under a very small microscope of world public opinion. Sad to know this happens in America. Even sadder to know that its probably very common, abuse by law enforcement officials.
There is absolutely no way to justify the way the officer chokes the paramedic. Its unarguably obvious the police officer completely loses his temper, becoming irrational and violent.
Whatever part of Oklahoma this happened in is now under a very small microscope of world public opinion. Sad to know this happens in America. Even sadder to know that its probably very common, abuse by law enforcement officials.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 7:02 PM
: May 30, 2009 7:02 PM
Apparently where ever the Trooper was headed speeding, with lights and sirens was not that important after all. I find it a crazy that the Trooper had time to turn around and pull you over. The Troopers both should be ashamed of their behavior.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 7:03 PM
: May 30, 2009 7:03 PM
This cop probably got picked on in high school. Give him a gun, a badge and some authority and lookout! I hate to speculate, but level the playing field (ditch the gun and badge) see how much of a tough-guy this trooper really is!
# posted by : May 30, 2009 10:08 PM
: May 30, 2009 10:08 PM
Mr. White could have taken all three of the officers down himself. Personally if I were him I probably would have. In my slightly twisted opinion all of the officers need to be beaten on sight.
# posted by : May 30, 2009 11:49 PM
: May 30, 2009 11:49 PM
I was very sad and shocked to watch the incident that took place between the EMS and troopers. Both of these jobs provide essential services to our society and a great dishonor was being displayed on video. What is done in the dark can now be brought to the like. I just hope that all the Oklahoma officialstruly comprehend the need to swiftly repair the grave damage done by these heartless law enforcement officials.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 12:56 AM
: May 31, 2009 12:56 AM
What that COP did WAS WRONG, i just found a online site that has up a petition against that COP
SO FAR it has 762 people that signed up for the PETITION
view http://alturl.com/h7dx
SO FAR it has 762 people that signed up for the PETITION
view http://alturl.com/h7dx
# posted by : May 31, 2009 4:47 AM
: May 31, 2009 4:47 AM
this is to the person that claims the paramedic elbowed the officer..
more like a nudge, not a elbow, it just happen he nudged the officer WITH the elbow, AFTER the the officer originally put his hands ON the paramedic, and the paramedic was trying to get the officers hands off him, the officer did not let go, so he NUDGED HIM (nudge because the elbow was already in contact with the body before force was applied)... their for it was not a elbow, it was a nudge, and it was a nudge after the officers wrongfully put the hands on him, and would not let go.
more like a nudge, not a elbow, it just happen he nudged the officer WITH the elbow, AFTER the the officer originally put his hands ON the paramedic, and the paramedic was trying to get the officers hands off him, the officer did not let go, so he NUDGED HIM (nudge because the elbow was already in contact with the body before force was applied)... their for it was not a elbow, it was a nudge, and it was a nudge after the officers wrongfully put the hands on him, and would not let go.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 5:22 AM
: May 31, 2009 5:22 AM
well where im from the cops treat our medical field with upright respect does these cops think there invincable or somthing because you never kno when mr White will be holding one of there lives in his hands because a cops job is dangerous sometime or another they will need his assistance im sure...
# posted by : May 31, 2009 7:36 AM
: May 31, 2009 7:36 AM
The "our statements may be false" quote is obviously a poor use of ellipsis. Showing the implied words in brackets, "[You may believe that] our statements may be false". The context makes this reading obvious, where Mr. White says skepticism is good but encourages the viewer to read the statements. He uses ellipsis again in the statement "please forgive if this comes off as bragging" with the omitted word being "me". You may critique Mr. White's writing style, but not of claiming his statement is false.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 8:21 AM
: May 31, 2009 8:21 AM
Now from what I now ain't these departments in it for the same reason to serve and protect the people? I know that cops are under alot of stress with recent shootings in various parts of the county ,but they should also remeber that medics are under stress also they don't want someone to pass on their watch. If these officers were smart and used good judgement they would have assessed the situation and determined the best possible outcome. Now as other officers know let the ambulance proceeded to the hospital and deal with the emt driver there. Another thing aren't emergency vehicles equipped with radios couldn't the ambulance communicate with the police or 911 dispatch. Remeber now one is above the law not even police. My prayers to the patients family.
Mr. White you deserve a great deal of respect for doing what you had to do to protect your rights and the patient's in the back of the ambulance. I hope those cops get what's coming to them. It is people like you that show the rest of us that there are still good people out there that are willing to do the right thing in any situation. My thoughts are with you, the patient and her family.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 9:55 AM
: May 31, 2009 9:55 AM
Mr. White... another supporter here. Steroidal Crazed Idiots should never be given guns and power!
I do not trust police officers.
I do not trust police officers.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 9:58 AM
: May 31, 2009 9:58 AM
I think that the situation could have been handled better than the way the officers handled it. But with being in the military I've learned if someone has the power to tell you they are doing something * hence * Your under arrest * . Then you don't Argue, you don't fight. You listen to them and follow they're orders. Let it get worked out after you've been arrested. Besides there was a injured patient who was in the ambulance who needed to get to the hospital, personally with living with a EMT I know that the patients come first. Better off listening to the officer and working it out later and getting the patient to the hospital than to set and argue and fight about it.
Still is a shame the way it was handled by the Trooper. I'm very ashamed to see that type of behavior.
Still is a shame the way it was handled by the Trooper. I'm very ashamed to see that type of behavior.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 11:21 AM
: May 31, 2009 11:21 AM
I've read through many comments, most are posted by outraged citezens and sympathetic EMTs. I am, by no means condoning the actions of the State Troppers; I do believe, in many ways, that they acted unproffessionally and with more force than required, but I am curious to hear what fellow State Troopers have to say on this topic. Not one of these posts has been from an officer, and I wonder if they feel as negatively towards the actions of the two, seemingly poor examples, of the Oklahoma Police force.
I, on the other hand, wish to extend my gratiude and respect to, both, the police who try to keep our streets safe, and the EMTs who assist us in our most dire times of need.
I, on the other hand, wish to extend my gratiude and respect to, both, the police who try to keep our streets safe, and the EMTs who assist us in our most dire times of need.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 1:58 PM
: May 31, 2009 1:58 PM
this same incident has happened numerous times in MD where state troopers have become over-zealous and arrest command officers because they believed traffic should be opened back up.
Face is POLICE, if there is not immediate life threat from crime, STAND DOWN, FIRE owns the scene. Case law has shown this over and over!
Face is POLICE, if there is not immediate life threat from crime, STAND DOWN, FIRE owns the scene. Case law has shown this over and over!
# posted by : May 31, 2009 2:24 PM
: May 31, 2009 2:24 PM
I hadn't heard about this incident until just now. I've, unfortunately, had run-ins with power mad officers but I wasn't operating an ambulance at the time. Unbelievable! I'll try not to pass further judgment until all the facts are known but the evidence from the video is pretty damning to the OHP and will be nearly impossible to justify.
To "Lee House": your post was badly written but understandable and matched the feeling of most posters here. So why did you suddenly feel it necessary link Sarah Palin to this incident??? What does the governor of Alaska have to do with the Oklahoma Highway Patrol??? You are obviously one of the people, (like these officers) who mixes two unrelated incidents and that you warn we need to keep from getting a badge.
To "Lee House": your post was badly written but understandable and matched the feeling of most posters here. So why did you suddenly feel it necessary link Sarah Palin to this incident??? What does the governor of Alaska have to do with the Oklahoma Highway Patrol??? You are obviously one of the people, (like these officers) who mixes two unrelated incidents and that you warn we need to keep from getting a badge.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 3:49 PM
: May 31, 2009 3:49 PM
Unfortunately this is just another clue to our eventual and inevitable socialist government. The problem is in management. And lack of discipline. One day Americans will realize that this country was founded on the idea that a weapon and a badge shouldn't constitute authority. With that said, you are one of the lucky ones. Many times these events go widely unnoticed.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 4:00 PM
: May 31, 2009 4:00 PM
I am a 37 year old white South African, I have come through the past of our country wondering if we will ever get past our color differences...after videos like this I fear that we will not...the reason for this is two fold. Yes, you will get racist pigs that still live in their own minds messing it up for everyone. The other reason is far worse to me, it is a devious and wicked plot to keep the fires of racism burning. In my opinion this video was staged and has baited the officers into incorrect action. This while the all-to-ready gentleman with his video recorder/phone is waiting to film it...My question to all you gullable dumb yanks is this...why was the man at the begining of the clip already saying they wanted to arrest MR white...when Mr white only got involved later on? (supposedly) wake up...these black people in this video are baiting you all to more hate and violence...In our country we are experiencing a huge amount of crime (20000 murders a year), why? because there is no respect for the rule of law...videos like this are aimed at undermining the rule of law...In our country it has now gotten so bad that if you tell a black man to correct his behaviour then you must automatically be a racist...This means that people do what they want because they can play the race card at any stage to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions and behavior...This video is no different, watch what will come from this when the whole story is heard...Although the Police man holding his hand around the guy's throat should not be tollerated, I say that these guys were looking for a fight...
When the end comes for our democracy here in America, it wont be a commie soldier or a bug eyed terrorist that takes it away, it will be the thin blue line...and we are handing our freedoms over to them a little each day. THIS and the other incidents like it, are excellent examples of whats to come.
Those of us in the media see it and deal with it each day, sometimes we even get locked up for opposing it but the public just wont heed the warning.
Those of us in the media see it and deal with it each day, sometimes we even get locked up for opposing it but the public just wont heed the warning.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 4:49 PM
: May 31, 2009 4:49 PM
All Oklahoma law enforcement officials should be ashamed including the Governor. These officers are representatives of the state whether they like it or not. They obviously lack good judgement and should be removed from duty immediately. The paramedics held this situation together considering the unfortunate situation the officers posed. God bless the gentleman that had the courage to record this incident.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 7:06 PM
: May 31, 2009 7:06 PM
Dear Defying Gravity,
I love the Spring Boks, and have been a fan even when they were banned fro international competition, but I would have expected someone with the national history you had to be more thoughtful about the issues of race, not just in the USA (and this incident), but the entire world.
The vast majority of murders in South Africa have little to do with race, and more to do with economically motivated crime. Although I am sure that the Truth and Reconciliation Process allowed a lot of individuals to confront those that denied their basic human rights, that won't remove the stigma of 60 odd years of Apartheid rule.
I can't vouch for Mr. White's age, and although I can't explain all of his behavior at the time (that's why we wait for the complete story and investigation), I feel confident that given the color of Mr. White's skin, he has been the subject of intentional and unintentional racism in his life.
I unfortunately bring a tremendous amount of personal baggage in my views people of different colors, religions, socio-economic, and cultural backgrounds from me. I don't like to consider myself a racist, but I would be lying if I said I was completely color blind.
I've lived long enough and in enough places (and I'm guessing you have as well), to know that people will always seek ways to differentiate themselves from other groups, from the: caste system in India (which officially no longer exists, but it does), to the tribal allegiances in African nations (Hutus and Tutsis jump to mind), the Aboriginal issue in Australia (and the recent national apology by the PM), the Japanese and their hate of the ethnic Koreans and the Ainu, the Roma people in Europe. You name it, someone hates and despises you, and feels the world would be a better place without you.
The fires of racism continue to burn, and will continue to burn, for many years, even without this video. What I find reassuring is that the majority of posters on this site have looked past the obvious color of Mr. White's skin, and only saw that he was employed in a similar profession as them. Having lived and served overseas, I'll tell you that it always fascinates me how much Americans flagellate themselves over the issue of race, and how often they are able to look past it, as in this case.
I tend to believe this is a situation that speaks more to the difference in uniforms than skin color.
Oh, and congratulations on the rugby Cup.
I love the Spring Boks, and have been a fan even when they were banned fro international competition, but I would have expected someone with the national history you had to be more thoughtful about the issues of race, not just in the USA (and this incident), but the entire world.
The vast majority of murders in South Africa have little to do with race, and more to do with economically motivated crime. Although I am sure that the Truth and Reconciliation Process allowed a lot of individuals to confront those that denied their basic human rights, that won't remove the stigma of 60 odd years of Apartheid rule.
I can't vouch for Mr. White's age, and although I can't explain all of his behavior at the time (that's why we wait for the complete story and investigation), I feel confident that given the color of Mr. White's skin, he has been the subject of intentional and unintentional racism in his life.
I unfortunately bring a tremendous amount of personal baggage in my views people of different colors, religions, socio-economic, and cultural backgrounds from me. I don't like to consider myself a racist, but I would be lying if I said I was completely color blind.
I've lived long enough and in enough places (and I'm guessing you have as well), to know that people will always seek ways to differentiate themselves from other groups, from the: caste system in India (which officially no longer exists, but it does), to the tribal allegiances in African nations (Hutus and Tutsis jump to mind), the Aboriginal issue in Australia (and the recent national apology by the PM), the Japanese and their hate of the ethnic Koreans and the Ainu, the Roma people in Europe. You name it, someone hates and despises you, and feels the world would be a better place without you.
The fires of racism continue to burn, and will continue to burn, for many years, even without this video. What I find reassuring is that the majority of posters on this site have looked past the obvious color of Mr. White's skin, and only saw that he was employed in a similar profession as them. Having lived and served overseas, I'll tell you that it always fascinates me how much Americans flagellate themselves over the issue of race, and how often they are able to look past it, as in this case.
I tend to believe this is a situation that speaks more to the difference in uniforms than skin color.
Oh, and congratulations on the rugby Cup.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 8:40 PM
: May 31, 2009 8:40 PM
Quite convenient how the cameraman has the camera pointed at the ground prior to the State Trooper announcing Mr White is under arrest. Would certainly be nice to see what happened to provoke to Trooper.
# posted by : May 31, 2009 10:06 PM
: May 31, 2009 10:06 PM
Fire the police and hold them accountable for there actions. I cannot believe that the policeman had the nerve to pull over a ambulance..
V1
V1
# posted by : May 31, 2009 11:33 PM
: May 31, 2009 11:33 PM
First off, by saying that his statement may be false he is not stating that it IS false. What he is saying is that the reader has no absolute proof that it is true and that it is his word. He's saying, "you can believe me if you want, or not." Critical thinking people. Do we not teach this basic concept in school anymore?
I am a former EMT and I think this Officer needs to be stripped and fired. It's true that hindering EMS is a misdemeanor in OK, but what he did was lay his hands on the medic WHILE he was trying to deliver patient care. This is different. That is assaulting EMS while administering care and THAT is a FELONY. Once an officer tells you "you are under arrest" and puts his hands on you, he had better lock you up. If not, it was blatant assault. Mr. White was not resisting arrest, he was trying to get back into his rig because the patient started to cry out. He was trying to do his job and this powertripping officer who thinks he is above the law needs to be made an example of for all law enforcement officers and nailed to the barn door for all to see.
I am a former EMT and I think this Officer needs to be stripped and fired. It's true that hindering EMS is a misdemeanor in OK, but what he did was lay his hands on the medic WHILE he was trying to deliver patient care. This is different. That is assaulting EMS while administering care and THAT is a FELONY. Once an officer tells you "you are under arrest" and puts his hands on you, he had better lock you up. If not, it was blatant assault. Mr. White was not resisting arrest, he was trying to get back into his rig because the patient started to cry out. He was trying to do his job and this powertripping officer who thinks he is above the law needs to be made an example of for all law enforcement officers and nailed to the barn door for all to see.
I am quite sure that if the EMTs were white,they would have been treated in a much different manner. It so just how racist the Southern United States still is. Very little progress has been made in the last forty years.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 12:09 AM
: June 1, 2009 12:09 AM
What did they originally pull the EMT over for?
Unless they thought the van was hauling something illegal or an escaped convict, they should have just rode to the ER and dealt with people there as needed to sort out warrants.
These cops look really stupid right now. I hope they had a good reason for doing this because it sets a dangerous precedent.
Unless they thought the van was hauling something illegal or an escaped convict, they should have just rode to the ER and dealt with people there as needed to sort out warrants.
These cops look really stupid right now. I hope they had a good reason for doing this because it sets a dangerous precedent.
To Defying Gravity and anonymous.
Why are ya'll trying to call this "racist"? I'm a "racist", so what? I don't support multiculturalism or "progress" aka institutional anti-whitism, but I'd take the side of the EMT over these two cops, because they are not doing anything pro-white, esp by harassing an EMT and holding up transport of an injured civilian. Did they call him "n'r" or something? Why do you say this is "racist"?
Why are ya'll trying to call this "racist"? I'm a "racist", so what? I don't support multiculturalism or "progress" aka institutional anti-whitism, but I'd take the side of the EMT over these two cops, because they are not doing anything pro-white, esp by harassing an EMT and holding up transport of an injured civilian. Did they call him "n'r" or something? Why do you say this is "racist"?
I watched the Video many times. To see what the troopers did blow me away. I have grown up around the EMS; my father is a supervisor now. I would say the medics kept there cool.
The medic that was out front, you couldn’t be much nicer to the officer. I really cannot even wonder why these troopers did what they did. A life is more important then any traffic ticket. The medic in the back, you only did what you thought was right. The ethics with the troopers are questionable. They should have waited for you to walk back out the doors at the ER or Trauma Center.
I know most of the state troopers in this area. They all seem to be nice. There are a few that I cannot stand, but there is a time and place for things. That was not the time, nor the place to pull an ambulance over. I do say to them, think about what your doing, treat them as you would want to be treated. You have to wonder if these medics come to your aid one day. Do you want them to do there best, or do you want them to do it by the book ”hint hint”. The troopers here are friendly with most of the medics here and hang out with one another. You need to take a lesson.
The trooper should have never laid a finger on the medic in my mind. No matter what was going on, the medic was not posturing to hit the trooper nor was he in any danger of being hit. I do not agree with a choke, nor say do it to any one. There are ways to restrain someone with out hurting them or choking them. To force the medic against the truck I am blown away too. These troopers seem that the where on a pursuit high. They need to be sent to a therapist to learn to deal with the anger and rush of adrenalin.
To hear they broke away form a back up call, make me wonder why the ambulance was so important. I was training earlier this year to dispatch for Fire, EMS, and Sheriffs before budget cuts. These guys take the cake, not only stopped an ambulance, but also did not back up a sheriff. I don’t know what could be worse. I have no knowledge of what they where going to, but if it required lights and siren for the troopers. You know it was something that could not wait. Just think the sheriff could be laying on the ground dieing, while you two are haven an ego trip. Not only did you leave a brother sheriff on covered but you where stopping a brother medic. You are a family.
I know in some cases the medic crews do need to be corrected. I know the SOG for my area. I have had some close calls with some of the units here, not only medic but fire too. The person in the back comes first. I do feel like there is a need to report these mess ups to the correct person, but don’t chase them down and tell them right then. The troopers should have followed them and contacted them at the ER or Trauma Center, and called for their supervisor.
The medic that was out front, you couldn’t be much nicer to the officer. I really cannot even wonder why these troopers did what they did. A life is more important then any traffic ticket. The medic in the back, you only did what you thought was right. The ethics with the troopers are questionable. They should have waited for you to walk back out the doors at the ER or Trauma Center.
I know most of the state troopers in this area. They all seem to be nice. There are a few that I cannot stand, but there is a time and place for things. That was not the time, nor the place to pull an ambulance over. I do say to them, think about what your doing, treat them as you would want to be treated. You have to wonder if these medics come to your aid one day. Do you want them to do there best, or do you want them to do it by the book ”hint hint”. The troopers here are friendly with most of the medics here and hang out with one another. You need to take a lesson.
The trooper should have never laid a finger on the medic in my mind. No matter what was going on, the medic was not posturing to hit the trooper nor was he in any danger of being hit. I do not agree with a choke, nor say do it to any one. There are ways to restrain someone with out hurting them or choking them. To force the medic against the truck I am blown away too. These troopers seem that the where on a pursuit high. They need to be sent to a therapist to learn to deal with the anger and rush of adrenalin.
To hear they broke away form a back up call, make me wonder why the ambulance was so important. I was training earlier this year to dispatch for Fire, EMS, and Sheriffs before budget cuts. These guys take the cake, not only stopped an ambulance, but also did not back up a sheriff. I don’t know what could be worse. I have no knowledge of what they where going to, but if it required lights and siren for the troopers. You know it was something that could not wait. Just think the sheriff could be laying on the ground dieing, while you two are haven an ego trip. Not only did you leave a brother sheriff on covered but you where stopping a brother medic. You are a family.
I know in some cases the medic crews do need to be corrected. I know the SOG for my area. I have had some close calls with some of the units here, not only medic but fire too. The person in the back comes first. I do feel like there is a need to report these mess ups to the correct person, but don’t chase them down and tell them right then. The troopers should have followed them and contacted them at the ER or Trauma Center, and called for their supervisor.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 1:34 AM
: June 1, 2009 1:34 AM
This is the second such high visibilty video I've seen this year showing altercations between public service agencies. The first was a Fire Captain in Florida that requested his driver to block the lane of traffic, closest to the emergency scene, to shield the emergency providers. The end result was the captain being detained by the officer during extrication of the patient from a MVC. Unless their actions were of an immediate threat to the safety of the providers or civilians, this stop could have been handled at the hospital or after delivery of the patient to the ED. Engaging the officers was probably not the best idea at the time and I'm sure what we witnessed was an abridged version of the full event. It is absurd that this incident happened at all. It's not the uniform nor the position that defines professionalism but the actions and dedication of the person wearing it. Its just halloween if you foget why you wear the uniform to begin with.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 1:34 AM
: June 1, 2009 1:34 AM
In the event that the Trooper did indeed arrest the paramedic, I think he may have looked a little foolish when he realized he would have to call in another EMT or Paramedic because he just removed the patient's caretaker. As was pointed out too, it WAS against the law, even for the troopers, to hinder care to a patient by an EMS worker. Looking at it in a legal aspect, it shows the troopers were clearly in the wrong. They should have taken care of the issue at the hospital, and not on the side of the road.
As a fellow Georgia State Patrol officer, I am embarrased by the behavior of the OHP. It is officer conduct like their's who give our professiona black eye! The EMT was calm and professional and they serve a vital role just as Lae Enforcement and Firefighters. I hope this works out well for the EMT. And on behalf of the Law Enforcement community, I apoligize for the unjust actions of the OHP.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 3:18 AM
: June 1, 2009 3:18 AM
Short and sweet! I'm also a police officer and they both should be fired. Those actions are out of order!
# posted by : June 1, 2009 9:30 AM
: June 1, 2009 9:30 AM
The Tropper was way over the line and should be fired ....You cannot just grap someone throat,,,besides that the medic could have crushed the head if he wanted.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 9:35 AM
: June 1, 2009 9:35 AM
FORGET 9/11!). Macho men don't play well with others.
The cultures of law enforcement, fire, and EMS are all unique. The history between organizations and personalities build legends that are bigger than life and impacts most interactions between individuals in the agencies. This is all so very egotistic, but it is an unfortunate reality. Little boys in the sandbox. 3 agencies all at the same incident often operate independently - even on 'their own' radio channels (NEVER FORGET 9/11!)
The public deserves better - I'm asking every responder reading this blog to consider their own attitudes and efforts to make communication and coordination better between emergency service providers. If they knew and understood each other, this incident may have never happened. Get along, people! There are other real people (with families and stuff) in in the middle!!!
The cultures of law enforcement, fire, and EMS are all unique. The history between organizations and personalities build legends that are bigger than life and impacts most interactions between individuals in the agencies. This is all so very egotistic, but it is an unfortunate reality. Little boys in the sandbox. 3 agencies all at the same incident often operate independently - even on 'their own' radio channels (NEVER FORGET 9/11!)
The public deserves better - I'm asking every responder reading this blog to consider their own attitudes and efforts to make communication and coordination better between emergency service providers. If they knew and understood each other, this incident may have never happened. Get along, people! There are other real people (with families and stuff) in in the middle!!!
# posted by : June 1, 2009 9:54 AM
: June 1, 2009 9:54 AM
Everyone makes mistakes. I hope these officers have learned what they did was wrong. Adrenaline makes people just react and not think things through these officers are probably inexperienced and full of adrenaline overreacted to the situation. Most people have no idea how difficult it is to make decisions like this, but they did make the right choice of letting the ambulance go and eventually it seems reason got the better of their adrenaline.
As far as this being racist. Give me a break. It's never about race it's about hate. Hate can be based on many things race is one of those things.
Let's forgive the officers and be thankful everyone is ok. I'm sure the officers have learned their lesson. As have the EMTs. No one's perfect so let go. I do think an apology is in order from the officers.
As far as this being racist. Give me a break. It's never about race it's about hate. Hate can be based on many things race is one of those things.
Let's forgive the officers and be thankful everyone is ok. I'm sure the officers have learned their lesson. As have the EMTs. No one's perfect so let go. I do think an apology is in order from the officers.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 11:36 AM
: June 1, 2009 11:36 AM
I just do not understand what was going through the troopers minds. It truly is sad to me that they would put a patient at risk like that. I do agree with a previous post that yes the medic was ordered out of the vehicle, so he did not have much of a choice. At that point, if it were me, I would follow the orders. Seeing as they were silly enough to pull him over in the first place, who know what they would have done next if their was any sort of resistance on the medics part.
Again it makes me sad to see this type of thing happen.
Again it makes me sad to see this type of thing happen.
The fact that these troopers even had the balls to pull over a "fellow emergency vehicle" is beyond belief. its a blatant abuse of power. weather your Police, Fire, or EMS, we all fall under the umbrella of public safety, and in case some of you out there forgot, this means were all on the "SAME" team. (or at least i thought that was the case).
# posted by : June 1, 2009 3:32 PM
: June 1, 2009 3:32 PM
As an Firefighter/Paramedic in michigan i fully know how cops are assholes to ems. Last week i recieved a ticket for closeing 2 lanes of traffic with the truck, for safety reasons. However altering a patients transport is over the line, even if the patient was a priority 3, chest pain is chest pain.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 4:38 PM
: June 1, 2009 4:38 PM
As I read the posted comments, I am amazed that anyone can find justification to actually defend the OHP on this. Yes, the EMT stepped out of the ambulance. If you're trying to get someone medical care and something is hindering that such as an over-zealous Buzz Lightyear cop trying to size up his you-know-whats, wouldn't you try to figure out what is keeping you from getting your patient the care he/she needs? Yes, the EMT swung his arm back at the cop. The officers aren't going to take care of the patient. Why would you let them stop you from doing your duty to help someone under your care? Yes, the ambulance didn't pull over when the driver saw the lights. It's an ambulance! I would think someone's life is a lot more important than responding to a call without a minimal delay to assist the county who was already on the scene. No one but the EMT's were there to help that lady. Furthermore, if time was of the essence, why did they feel they had the time to stop an ambulance of all vehicles to administer a scolding? That isn't rectifying anything; that is a mere matter of ego. There was absolutely NO EXCUSE for using that kind of tone and that kind of force. Save that for actual crooks and leave life saving EMT's alone. I used to be a soldier and understand the need to maintain bearing and professionalism in the uniform. The behavior by the OHP was disgraceful to themselves and the outfit they represented with that uniform.
I feel that it will be a long time before anyone can look at an OHP trooper with any kind of respect after this. I know I won't.
I feel that it will be a long time before anyone can look at an OHP trooper with any kind of respect after this. I know I won't.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 6:26 PM
: June 1, 2009 6:26 PM
I give you my greatest wishes sir of your hardships! It was hard to watch a video of such madness. Especially as a creek citizen myself. WE the PEOPLE must support each other against all forms of tyranny and oppression. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL. Come on guys the govt. knows this. ITS time to come to a common consensus.
# posted by : June 1, 2009 6:40 PM
: June 1, 2009 6:40 PM
None of you must realize that the ambulance was from a private company, right? and a cop being a state/government job is higher on the chain of command. A private company has no right not yeilding to a state offical vechile even if the do have a patient the cop can be an ass and they have to move over, I took an EMT-B class because I had too, and that is one thing I learned. Sorry I don't know much about the EMS side I was going to be a Combat Medic in the military but I decided shooting people was more fun and now I am in a Police Program.....watch out!!
unbelievable! immediate termination. if the patient died because of this moron's ego trip, would he still feel good because "no one is above the law." "All pigs are equal, except some pigs are more equal than others." George Orwell. I bet he has intimidated/harassed citizens before and has gotten away with it. being a cop does not give you the right to abuse the public because you think you can. Rot in hell. Wouldn't it be a shame if a family member was on the way to the hospital and died because another cop pulled the same stunt off?
# posted by : June 1, 2009 9:02 PM
: June 1, 2009 9:02 PM
Seems the OHP is full of jackbooted thugs. This link takes you to an article about a OHP officer kicking a woman that is handcuffed and on the ground. Paste into your browser
http://www.policelink.com/news/articles/104950-trooper-charged-with-kicking-handcuffed-woman
http://www.policelink.com/news/articles/104950-trooper-charged-with-kicking-handcuffed-woman
# posted by : June 1, 2009 9:10 PM
: June 1, 2009 9:10 PM
@Tom - You are misinformed. Municipal or private, it doesn't matter. The bus should have yielded because the officer was traveling at a higher rate of speed, not because it ranked lower on the hierarchy of importance.
Some areas contract their emergency services to private companies and don't forget most Volunteer systems could be considered private enterprises. They are usually independent corporations chartered to provide service to municipalities. Does that mean they shouldn't be afforded the same respect - they have the same responsibilities. And it should be noted that lights and sirens don't give anyone the right to break laws and that includes driving at an excessive rate of speed - which has been demonstrated in criminal proceedings against fire, police and ems numerous time. I'm sure the bus was moving at a good clip - I can imagine how fast the officer must have been moving....
Some areas contract their emergency services to private companies and don't forget most Volunteer systems could be considered private enterprises. They are usually independent corporations chartered to provide service to municipalities. Does that mean they shouldn't be afforded the same respect - they have the same responsibilities. And it should be noted that lights and sirens don't give anyone the right to break laws and that includes driving at an excessive rate of speed - which has been demonstrated in criminal proceedings against fire, police and ems numerous time. I'm sure the bus was moving at a good clip - I can imagine how fast the officer must have been moving....
# posted by : June 1, 2009 11:21 PM
: June 1, 2009 11:21 PM
BTW: After watching that video, when I go to visit relatives in Texas I'll be sure to make a wide detour around Oklahoma.
# posted by : June 2, 2009 1:03 AM
: June 2, 2009 1:03 AM
People can say what they want but there is no excuse for the patrol man to pull the ambulance over to begin with, as was stated, this is ILLEGAL. How can this be defended in any way? Indeed, I feel that the few who could stomache trying to defend these patrol men are either butthurt cops themselves or are related to law enforcement. I just don't see anyone using common sense defending these officers. This was wrong from the start.
# posted by : June 2, 2009 5:34 AM
: June 2, 2009 5:34 AM
there's more to this story than what's being reported...
personally one possible solution would be to place all Paramedic Services to the Local FIRE Departments or County Sheriff
personally one possible solution would be to place all Paramedic Services to the Local FIRE Departments or County Sheriff
Paramedic White,
Im sure that you look at these posts to get an idea of what peoples view are on the incident. People like cowboy xxx obviously did not read the reports or look at the video to make a stupid argument like patient abandonment. As a paramedic it is our responsibility to make sure that everything is taken care of pertaining to patient care, that includes responsibility over the transport. If your a paramedic in an ambulance and your are pulled over by the police, Im sure everyone will agree that you will inquire as to what is going on because it is not something that happens everyday. I have researched this incident and found that the officer in this video is even getting bashed by his peers. Remember that what that video represents is police officers, he is a discrase to the profession and Im sure that he will be ousted from the force! You should be proud that you were able to keep your composure, you look like a big guy and things got of really got out of hand if you would have served him the a$$ whippin he needed!
Im sure that you look at these posts to get an idea of what peoples view are on the incident. People like cowboy xxx obviously did not read the reports or look at the video to make a stupid argument like patient abandonment. As a paramedic it is our responsibility to make sure that everything is taken care of pertaining to patient care, that includes responsibility over the transport. If your a paramedic in an ambulance and your are pulled over by the police, Im sure everyone will agree that you will inquire as to what is going on because it is not something that happens everyday. I have researched this incident and found that the officer in this video is even getting bashed by his peers. Remember that what that video represents is police officers, he is a discrase to the profession and Im sure that he will be ousted from the force! You should be proud that you were able to keep your composure, you look like a big guy and things got of really got out of hand if you would have served him the a$$ whippin he needed!
It is very sad to see/read about these things. Cops against Cops, Cops against Paramedics... etc..when is it ever going to stop? Shouldn't they be working/helping one another? What is this World coming to.....
# posted by : June 5, 2009 1:04 AM
: June 5, 2009 1:04 AM
It is unfortunate that so many people jump to conclusions with only seeing a small portion of what happened at the incident and then grossly overstate what they see.
First, CHOKING. The EMT was not be choked, if he had been, he would have needed medical care.
The EMT came out of the back of the ambulance and confronted the officer. The officer requested several times for him to return to the back of the ambulance.
Here's a thought, the EMT failed to follow a reasonable request of a police officer. Law Violation #1. Pulled away from the officer when the officer was actively trying to restrain him and take him into custody, Resisting Arrest, Law Violation #2.
Here's another one for you, officer safety. Have you ever been surrounded by multiple people in an antagonistic way? I am sure the officer was concerned for his own safety.
All that should have happened is that the EMT should have stayed in the ambulance WITH HIS PATIENT and not confront the officer and this never would have escalated. People always want to blame the police for their own actions that cause the escalation of the incident.
Why do we not hold the EMT to a standard of following the law.
A civilized society requires the institution of laws and as an EMT, if he were running CODE 3, Lights and Siren to a call or to the hospital, he would want this same officer to stop and cite anyone who did not yeild to them.
If this patient had a serious condition that needed immediate treatment, why is he coming out of the back of the ambulance. Patient Care, first and foremost. The patient's family should be frustrated, angry and upset with the EMT that left their loved one in a time of need. TOTALLY ALONE.
When is someone going to ask that the EMT be put on leave while the investigation continues and then being terminated for his actions.
Please, until you have walked a second in the shoes of a police officer, do not, I REPEAT, do not judge his actions. He dealt with the situation accordingly, one step of force above what the suspect, (Person violating the law) EMT, was using to resist arrest. Controlling the suspect with minimum amount of force needed.
I say FIRE this EMT. He does not deserve to be employed if he acts this way. With 30 years of experience, he should have shown some restraint. Hold him accountable for his actions.
Shame on the DA, this EMT was in clear violation of the law. The officer did not hinder the treatment of the patient, the EMT did by getting out of the ambulance and confronting the officer. There was another EMT on scene who could have treated the patient.
First, CHOKING. The EMT was not be choked, if he had been, he would have needed medical care.
The EMT came out of the back of the ambulance and confronted the officer. The officer requested several times for him to return to the back of the ambulance.
Here's a thought, the EMT failed to follow a reasonable request of a police officer. Law Violation #1. Pulled away from the officer when the officer was actively trying to restrain him and take him into custody, Resisting Arrest, Law Violation #2.
Here's another one for you, officer safety. Have you ever been surrounded by multiple people in an antagonistic way? I am sure the officer was concerned for his own safety.
All that should have happened is that the EMT should have stayed in the ambulance WITH HIS PATIENT and not confront the officer and this never would have escalated. People always want to blame the police for their own actions that cause the escalation of the incident.
Why do we not hold the EMT to a standard of following the law.
A civilized society requires the institution of laws and as an EMT, if he were running CODE 3, Lights and Siren to a call or to the hospital, he would want this same officer to stop and cite anyone who did not yeild to them.
If this patient had a serious condition that needed immediate treatment, why is he coming out of the back of the ambulance. Patient Care, first and foremost. The patient's family should be frustrated, angry and upset with the EMT that left their loved one in a time of need. TOTALLY ALONE.
When is someone going to ask that the EMT be put on leave while the investigation continues and then being terminated for his actions.
Please, until you have walked a second in the shoes of a police officer, do not, I REPEAT, do not judge his actions. He dealt with the situation accordingly, one step of force above what the suspect, (Person violating the law) EMT, was using to resist arrest. Controlling the suspect with minimum amount of force needed.
I say FIRE this EMT. He does not deserve to be employed if he acts this way. With 30 years of experience, he should have shown some restraint. Hold him accountable for his actions.
Shame on the DA, this EMT was in clear violation of the law. The officer did not hinder the treatment of the patient, the EMT did by getting out of the ambulance and confronting the officer. There was another EMT on scene who could have treated the patient.
# posted by : June 13, 2009 5:38 PM
: June 13, 2009 5:38 PM
Of course not. When you really need one, the gamble is worth the risk. You know, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
And to the guy who said that the officer was surrounded and probably felt threatened: are you serious??? I think i see a lot more tan and brown than anything else.
Look, I can understand if you are a part of a brotherhood and you want to defend that organization to a certain extent, but don't blindly defend them to the point where you try to defy logic. When you do, you sound like one of the old members of the Third Reich at Nuremberg trying to "loyally" defend Hitler. In the end, you simply sound like a jackass and you're still wrong.
And to the guy who said that the officer was surrounded and probably felt threatened: are you serious??? I think i see a lot more tan and brown than anything else.
Look, I can understand if you are a part of a brotherhood and you want to defend that organization to a certain extent, but don't blindly defend them to the point where you try to defy logic. When you do, you sound like one of the old members of the Third Reich at Nuremberg trying to "loyally" defend Hitler. In the end, you simply sound like a jackass and you're still wrong.
# posted by : June 15, 2009 10:24 AM
: June 15, 2009 10:24 AM
I have read all of the comments posted on this topic. As a former Paramedic, I have to question the wisdom of the paramedic getting out of the ambulance to confront the officer. The officer obviously wanted something with the driver, and the driver should have handled the situation. Simply explain to the officer that he had a patient in the back that needed to get to the hospital. Instead, the paramedic come out of the back gunning for bear, and immediately put the officer on the defensive. What would have happened if the patient had gone into V-tach or V-fib, the medic would have missed it and the patient would have died because the medic wanted to thump his chest. Shame on the Medic. Do Not ever leave your patient to handle let the driver handle it. The driver was never given the opportunity.
# posted by : June 16, 2009 2:11 PM
: June 16, 2009 2:11 PM
Several legal issues I'd be interested in to start with.
1. Why is any law enforcement vehicle participating in an emergency call with a civilian in the car?
2. Is transporting a family member while on duty even allowed? If so, why?
3. It's apparent the official police report was less than factual and omitted pertinent information pertaining to the incident as verified by the camera in the patrolman's car. Since this is an official legal document, why are no charges being filed for falsifying such a document? To be sure this is a crime in itself.
It's a known and widely publicized fact that personnel returning from duty in Iraq have suffered mentally and physically as have all soldiers returning from previous wars. In light of this and the stress involved in being in law enforcement with today's challenges, it would appear even greater oversight would be used in the hiring of officers from the military pool. I am retired military and have served with individuals exposed to combat zones and in one way or another, ALL of them have psychological scars of varying degrees. Some handle it better than others and some will truly never be the same.
It's unconscionable to think that ALL law enforcement agencies aren't scrutinizing such applicants more closely to weed out personnel that have anger and authority issues such as this officer exhibited. Might it be that he considers it acceptable to approach instances such as this the same way they did in Iraq at checkpoints, during their free for all, no warrant needed, acceptable in time of war type confrontations? Who knows, maybe he was a supply clerk or admin troop that never got to get down and dirty and feels a need to prove himself worthy in his own mind.
This individual has severe issues and it's a shame his lack of any level of good judgment, failure to follow policy, inability to represent the OHP by their own standards of service and conduct, and contempt for the law by lying on his report shames the great officers honestly trying to perform their jobs in a professional and courteous manner. Until there is someone of authority with the guts to mandate thorough, unbiased, third party psych testing for this individual, he should not be assigned a badge, a gun or a car and unleashed on the public again.
1. Why is any law enforcement vehicle participating in an emergency call with a civilian in the car?
2. Is transporting a family member while on duty even allowed? If so, why?
3. It's apparent the official police report was less than factual and omitted pertinent information pertaining to the incident as verified by the camera in the patrolman's car. Since this is an official legal document, why are no charges being filed for falsifying such a document? To be sure this is a crime in itself.
It's a known and widely publicized fact that personnel returning from duty in Iraq have suffered mentally and physically as have all soldiers returning from previous wars. In light of this and the stress involved in being in law enforcement with today's challenges, it would appear even greater oversight would be used in the hiring of officers from the military pool. I am retired military and have served with individuals exposed to combat zones and in one way or another, ALL of them have psychological scars of varying degrees. Some handle it better than others and some will truly never be the same.
It's unconscionable to think that ALL law enforcement agencies aren't scrutinizing such applicants more closely to weed out personnel that have anger and authority issues such as this officer exhibited. Might it be that he considers it acceptable to approach instances such as this the same way they did in Iraq at checkpoints, during their free for all, no warrant needed, acceptable in time of war type confrontations? Who knows, maybe he was a supply clerk or admin troop that never got to get down and dirty and feels a need to prove himself worthy in his own mind.
This individual has severe issues and it's a shame his lack of any level of good judgment, failure to follow policy, inability to represent the OHP by their own standards of service and conduct, and contempt for the law by lying on his report shames the great officers honestly trying to perform their jobs in a professional and courteous manner. Until there is someone of authority with the guts to mandate thorough, unbiased, third party psych testing for this individual, he should not be assigned a badge, a gun or a car and unleashed on the public again.
# posted by : June 17, 2009 6:14 PM
: June 17, 2009 6:14 PM
I have read through most of these comments. I do believe that the trooper was out of line. And the guy from Kansas was right, he probably should not have got out and engaged the trooper.. But I cant say that I wouldnt have done the same thing. He protected his partner and essentally tried to continue his transport to the hospital in a timely manner. I believe that the officer could have had a professional attitude. And I have to ask.. Why in the world would you pull over an EMS unit in transit to the hospital?? Thats insane! Ill close with this, Captain / Paramedic from Kansas. The dash cam video is out. I hope you watch it!!! I would have reacted the same way.
# posted by : June 18, 2009 2:39 AM
: June 18, 2009 2:39 AM
I love how you can tell who the cops are " until you've walked a mile in a troopers shoes, don't judge him " ... IMO most cops are good yes, but most of them are also egotistical people who got picked on in school and who want to give it back to people, and they think once they get that badge pinned to their shirt that they are invinciable....
This guy told Mr Whites partner he was considering deadly force? over a traffic citation? I'd consider his sanity.... and if that would have been my mom in the back of that ambulance, someone would be giving my answers from OHP and quick.... a trooper willing to draw his service weapon over a failure to yeild citation?
On the flip side of the coin sir, you and the rest of your law enforcement people need to put yourselves in our shoes.... Mr White did everything I would have done, even as a basic.... he thought he seen someone who was in need of medical care (because of how erratically the trooper was driving) so he got out and tried to render aide... I would have done the same.
To the moron whos going to be a state trooper/cop and took a EMT Basic class and thinks that the private servies are lower then the police and FDs, your wrong sir.... I work for both and at any given time I can charge ANYONE, With impeding my patient care.... no one who is a Firefighter, EMT, Paramedic, Law Enforcement officer or any type of public servent is lower then anyone else, just because you work for a private agency, we all do the same job. But I do firmly believe that this trooper should be charged with impeding with this patients care and be charged with assault, cops cant just go around putting people in choke holds just because.... and they cant go around putting their hands on people for no reason.... if he had reason yes, IMO he had no reason....
This guy told Mr Whites partner he was considering deadly force? over a traffic citation? I'd consider his sanity.... and if that would have been my mom in the back of that ambulance, someone would be giving my answers from OHP and quick.... a trooper willing to draw his service weapon over a failure to yeild citation?
On the flip side of the coin sir, you and the rest of your law enforcement people need to put yourselves in our shoes.... Mr White did everything I would have done, even as a basic.... he thought he seen someone who was in need of medical care (because of how erratically the trooper was driving) so he got out and tried to render aide... I would have done the same.
To the moron whos going to be a state trooper/cop and took a EMT Basic class and thinks that the private servies are lower then the police and FDs, your wrong sir.... I work for both and at any given time I can charge ANYONE, With impeding my patient care.... no one who is a Firefighter, EMT, Paramedic, Law Enforcement officer or any type of public servent is lower then anyone else, just because you work for a private agency, we all do the same job. But I do firmly believe that this trooper should be charged with impeding with this patients care and be charged with assault, cops cant just go around putting people in choke holds just because.... and they cant go around putting their hands on people for no reason.... if he had reason yes, IMO he had no reason....
# posted by : June 18, 2009 5:17 AM
: June 18, 2009 5:17 AM
what the trooper did was wroeng. had that woman die that officer would kiss his carrer bye. The ambulance dosen't have to get out of the way of police unless the ambulance is not on a call. thats a diffrent story, The trooper needs to know stopping a paramedic from preforming his duties is illegal. and so the paramedic had all the reason to defend the driver
# posted by : June 18, 2009 6:54 AM
: June 18, 2009 6:54 AM
I watched the entire dash cam video from the officers cruiser before he even got up to your vehicle. I also saw the camera phone [i think it was a phone anyway] video that one of the people riding in the ambulance took of the officers and how unprofessional they were. They drove recklessly and endangered a patient that obviously needed medical attention. If I were the patient and I survived that I would take the officers to court to have them striped of there badges. There was no call for any of that. If the officers were heading to call then they could have gone around the ambulance as soon as they had pulled over instead of creating even more of a hazard for a person in need. I thought the police saying was to protect and serve. But lately I think it's more like to punish and be a pain.
# posted by : June 19, 2009 12:42 PM
: June 19, 2009 12:42 PM
MY UNCLE WAS KILLED(MURDERED)BY AN OKLAHOMA STATE TROOPER ON NOVEMBER 29, 1993 in WILBERTON, OKLAHOMA!!!!! THE TROOPER shot my unarmed uncle point blank and then handcuffed him and let him lay there to die BEFORE he called for an ambulance....The State Troopers cover each other asses and to this day the REAL TRUTH is hidden....The trooper that MURDERED my uncle MURDERED a few years later AGAIN, this time killing a couple. I've heard he is in a looney bin, but you never know!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have tried to research what really happened to my Uncle and get answers, however I just hit road block after road block!!
# posted by : June 20, 2009 11:37 AM
: June 20, 2009 11:37 AM
All you Idiots just see a badge and a gun and you automatically think the cop is wrong.
The trooper lost his hat when White shoved him. that's more than a nudge!
We all know the driver of the ambulance flipped off the cop yes they use the term "hand gesture"
you are not stupid,....or are you?
That EMT (White) came out all puffed up and got the response he wanted then acted all surprised about it.
White is a candy ass hiding behind his profession.
The trooper lost his hat when White shoved him. that's more than a nudge!
We all know the driver of the ambulance flipped off the cop yes they use the term "hand gesture"
you are not stupid,....or are you?
That EMT (White) came out all puffed up and got the response he wanted then acted all surprised about it.
White is a candy ass hiding behind his profession.
this is a quote
"I assumed that the woman in the front seat of the cruiser dressed in civilian clothing needed immediate help. That is why I initially stepped from the rear of the unit."
That is a huge LIE! The first words out of whites mouth were "no you now!"
white was combative at the very start. not concerned with his or any other person/patient
"I assumed that the woman in the front seat of the cruiser dressed in civilian clothing needed immediate help. That is why I initially stepped from the rear of the unit."
That is a huge LIE! The first words out of whites mouth were "no you now!"
white was combative at the very start. not concerned with his or any other person/patient
As soon as the medic came out he should have told the officer that there was a patient in the back. As soon as the officer knew there was a patient in the back, he should have let them go and followed them to the hospital to pursue any tickets. The medic shouldn't have thrown the elbow, and the officer definitely shouldn't have choked him, acted as if he was going to arrest him, but then let him go. You can't charge the medic since he wasn't arrested, but the trooper definitely needs to be fired. You don't choke a citizen in that manner.
# posted by : July 23, 2009 10:16 AM
: July 23, 2009 10:16 AM
99.9% of all cops are on a sever power trip. Most likely do to being pushed around and laughed at in high school and later years. That officer was short and whimpy even his bark was the slightest bit intimidating. poor guy. Hope he loses his badge or the state cuts back on the excessive money to the stupid police stations.
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: October 8, 2009 9:45 PM Links to this post:
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