Monday, October 6, 2008
Would furloughed medic crew have made a difference?
Point A on this map is PGFD Station 846, 1.3 miles from Point B, the 11000 block of Herrington Court.
When the woman who lives in the 11,000 block of Herrington Court in Largo, MD called 911 Monday morning because her husband was having trouble breathing, she received a prompt response. Ambulance 846, at the Largo firehouse on Campus Way South, was a little more than a mile away from Herrington Court.
But unavailable for this call was Medic 846, out of the same fire station. It wasn't because the crew was on another emergency. Prince George's County Fire/EMS Department Chief Spokesman Mark Brady confirms the reason Medic 846 wasn't dispatched is that its crew had been furloughed for eight hours.
Instead, Ambulance 846 arrived on the scene at 11:00 AM, about 6 minutes after the 911 call, unable to provide advanced life support treatment. ALS care was clearly needed because the patient was in cardiac arrest when the ambulance crew got to his side. Crew members used the units AED and performed CPR until the arrival of the next closest medic unit, Medic 820, from Upper Marlboro.
Medic 820 was at its quarters, 14814 Pratt Street, when the call came in. Station 820 is the 9th closest PGFD station to that address. According to Brady, Medic 820 was dispatched at the same time as Ambulance 846, but it took them 13 minutes to travel the 7.1 miles to the scene.
Point A on this map is PGFD Station 820, 7.1 miles from Point B, the 11000 block of Herrington Court.
According to sources familiar with Monday's call, the crew from Medic 820 was able to get a pulse from the man on three different occasions before arriving at the hospital. Each time the man went back into cardiac arrest. Doctors worked the patient for about an hour at the emergency department, before pronouncing him dead.
Our sources tell us the man was recovering from heart surgery performed after his previous trip to the hospital.
The sources have asked not to be identified because they are not authorized to speak about this incident.
Spokesman Brady, contacted by STATter 911, confirmed these times for the handling of the call on Herrington Court:
10:54 – 911 call initiated
10:55 – A846 and MD820 dispatched
11:00 – A846 arrives
11:04 – A846 advised a working code and E846 was alerted to call
11:08 – MD820 arrives
11:09 – E846 arrives
11:27 – MD820 transports to hospital.
Brady added the following as part of his response to our questions about the call:
These times reflect the way the incident was handled with the appropriate units being dispatched, taking into consideration that the first due medic unit was not available. I do not see how the times could have been any better considering the patient was loaded and transported within 27 minutes after arrival of the first unit. The second due medic unit arrived ahead of the engine crew which was required to assist in loading the patient.
While I would always like to see better times, who wouldn’t, on every call, I do not see that this incident and associated times rises to the level of newsworthiness.
The Prince George's County Fire/EMS Department began furloughing firefighters and medics on September 28. The furloughs require all county employees to lose 80-hours pay before June, 2009 in an effort to close a budget shortfall.
According to a schedule obtained by STATter 911, Medic 820 and Medic 846 are on the same furlough rotation, but at different times during the day . Monday was the start of four days of furloughs for these two units, hitting all four shifts. Sources tell us while Medic 846 is shut down from 7:00 AM until 3:00 PM, Medic 820 is furloughed during the overnight hours.
Click here to see the entire furlough schedule for medic crews.
Click here for the most recent furlough schedule effecting fire stations.
Nice job PG, you just cost the county more money than you saved!
Last night, trauma code from shooting on Nalley road, no Medic unit responding - furloughed. I think it does make a difference.
It is physically impossible to do proper CPR and load the paitent at the same time.
If you figure they didn't know the paitent was in cardiac arrest, they would have to send one person out to get the equipment. While moving the paitent no CPR would be done.
The crew did the best they could, if the further medic unit got a pulse back 3 times... imagine what could have happend with quicker ACLS interventions.
Good job Vernon, You have my vote for County Executive when Jack is done.
Mr. Statter - You must have something better to do with your time then on stories like this where you can not prove positively that someone or something would have made a difference.
Sorry the dude died but you can do better stories then this. At least you didn't put it on TV.
It is impractical for a two person ambulance crew to perform CPR (on apparently a viable patient) and somehow load the patient.
The furlough might not have killed this man, but it did take away his chance to live. Jack Johnson and company took away his chance. It's one thing for Medic 46 to be unavailable because they are on another call (that's just bad luck), but it's a completely different story when they would have been available without the furloughs (bad luck by design).
I see Medic 20 is being furloughed at night. I'll bet it's no coincidence that the Medic Unit protecting Upper Marlboro is NOT being furloughed during the day when Jack Johnson and friends are at the CAB and might need it.
Speaking of Jack, when will his security detail will be furloughed?
It may not be a silver bullet, but other jurisdictions HAVE been held accountable when there is a loss where the nearest, normally available emergency unit, is unstaffed.
It happened to IAFF Local 2 when Chicago firefighters went on strike, and has happened to municipalities that practice firehouse roulette.
I understand your argument, that on another day M846 may have been staffed and on another run when a person arrested in 46's first due.
PG has the least resourced and busiest ems system in the DC area. Placing medic ambulances out of service will eventually create a perfect worse case scenario.
Being held accountable and making a change are not related. We need only look to Philadelphia, with the busiest medic ambulances and up to a 45 minute wait for paramedics ... for YEARS ... no municipal money to improve service.
Or how about OSH??? It's great to have 3 paramedics doing work a civilian could easily do. Lets pay someone 100k to send out physical notices. Great management. Can't blame Jack Johnson for everything. We're our worst enemy.
Be prepared for more changes!!! Word on the street is that the furlough plan has changed yet again.
I talked to the woman who called 911 for her husband. Tennie Waller's feeling is that getting medics there at the same time as the ambulance might have made a difference.
Of course, there is no way of knowing whether Lawrence Waller would have lived, even if medics had been by his side when collapsed. I have done scores of these type stories in 23 years of TV news (remember DC's firehouse roulette). You never know for sure.
So you are correct we can not prove positively that Medic 846's absence negatively impacted the outcome. You also can't prove that it didn't. But does that mean we shouldn't do the story?
Knowing if Mr. Waller would have lived or died is not the point of the story. The question I ask, if it is your relative, do you want the medic unit to arrive in 5 minutes or 13 minutes?
We are just looking to see the impact a new policy in Prince George's County is having on public safety. I believe that is the role of journalists.
So, I will continue to hang with the dirt, worms and bugs.
Statter
If you figure they didn't know the patient was in cardiac arrest, they would have to send one person out to get the equipment. While moving the patient no CPR would be done.
Well most proper EMS units within the country would take the necessary equipment inside with them on a trouble breathing call. AED, O2, Aid Bag, Stretcher. But PGFD units see it fit to only take a clip board and pen to obtain a sign off. They don't want to help the people that pay there salaries. They would rather tell someone to drive themselves to the hospital so they can get back to personal matters or watching there Union rep on the news. I do believe when you take EMT, Paramedic, and CPR courses you are shown and practice skills as a single provider that you must pass to obtain a certification. So if you have two personnel on a unit (A846), one can run (sorry walk) back out to the unit and pick up necessary supplies and equipment to handle the emergency. Just another thing for to now sweep under the rug Sedgewick.
PGFD - Keepin It Safe - If you live in another county.
Man 1500 comedians out of work and you are trying to be one.
If you didn't know it was a code, you still wouldn't have a backboard, or suction.
The COT??? come on. Nobody brings the cot into the house until they have planed the route. Was the Pt. upstairs??
Nice try clip board. Sign here... your a tool.
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