Saturday, August 30, 2008
"Browned--out" fire engine was closest to CA house fires. Did budget cuts effect handling of the fire?
Image from KOVR-TV. Click here for fire video.
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A roof collapse injured one firefighter. Three others were hurt in the the 3-alarm fire on a 100-degree day in the Del Paso Heights neighborhood of Sacramento. The blaze spread from one home to a second.
Rotating fire company closures left the closest fire station without an engine company and it took seven-minutes for the first pumper to arrive on the scene. The City of Sacramento Fire Department's official press release about the fire includes information about the closed company. The department also lists its "brown-out" calender of closed companies on its website.
From KXTV-TV:
Fire response possibly slowed by a browned-out Sacramento fire station may have played a role in a three-alarm blaze that destroyed two homes in a Del Paso Heights neighborhood Friday afternoon.
Capt. Jim Doucette with the Sacramento Fire Department said the fire started on the 100 block of Redondo Avenue around 5 p.m. Friday.
Crews were able to get the fire under control, but not before two homes were burned to the ground.
Doucette said Sacramento Fire's Rescue 20, a truck without water-pumping and hose capabilities, was the first unit on scene, but it wasn't until Engine 17 arrived at 5:19 p.m. that efforts to battle the fire could get underway.
The engine at Fire Station 20, located on Rio Linda Boulevard, was out of service under the city's new brownout policy.
Due to budget cuts, the city began rotating fire company closures throughout Sacramento last month, shutting down a single company for 48 hours at a time.
"It did throw us a little behind," Doucette said. "Whenever that happens, the rescue company has to go into a completely separate mode."
Doucette said Engine 17 arrived seven minutes after the initial fire call, just over the department's preferred five-minute response time to emergency calls.
As for whether an on-duty Engine 20 would have made a difference or been able to save any portion of the burned homes, Doucette said simply, "I have no idea."
Wendy Ayala lost everything but a dresser in the fire and said she didn't know her neighborhood fire station was closed Friday.
"It's too bad. If they could have gotten here sooner, maybe it could have been saved," Ayala said. "It's sad for everybody."
The cause of the blaze was under investigation. Doucette said a partial roof collapse injured one firefighter and three others were transported to area hospitals for what appeared to be heat exhaustion. All the injuries were described as minor, Doucette said.
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Budget cuts are usually to infrastructure, which affects 100% of the population so that other programs that affect small numbers of vocal voters are not afrected or are given increases.
# posted by 
: August 30, 2008 11:51 AM
: August 30, 2008 11:51 AM
If I remeber corectly sometime back in the early 90's DCFD was doing the same thing. There was a fire and the closest engine was shut down for the night. The news and the public asked a bunch of question's about it and no real answer was given. FD's are usualy slashed because the public does not think about us until they need us. Point being is it happened back then, it's happening now and most likly going to happen in the future. DJR
# posted by : August 30, 2008 4:06 PM
: August 30, 2008 4:06 PM
Yes, DC rotated closures with what was dubbed "Firehouse Roulette" in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I believe each time there was bad publicity over responses to fatal fires.
Statter
Statter
I guess being 100% career doesn't solve all of the staffing issues...all paid or all volunteer, it does no good if nobody is there to get the rigs out the door...
# posted by : August 30, 2008 6:41 PM
: August 30, 2008 6:41 PM
"It did throw us a little behind," Doucette said. "Whenever that happens, the rescue company has to go into a completely separate mode."
Doucette said Engine 17 arrived seven minutes after the initial fire call, just over the department's preferred five-minute response time to emergency calls.
As for whether an on-duty Engine 20 would have made a difference or been able to save any portion of the burned homes, Doucette said simply, "I have no idea."
You simply have no idea?
Capt. Doucette, you mean to tell me that in all of your years of firefighting experience, you have "no idea" if an extra two minutes would have made a difference in the effectiveness of firefighting operations, had that first due engine company been in service?
Ridiculous! Just keep spitting out the company line, and drinking the Kool-Aid. I wonder if it's the same flavor that the upper brass of the D.C.F.D. have been consuming?
Doucette said Engine 17 arrived seven minutes after the initial fire call, just over the department's preferred five-minute response time to emergency calls.
As for whether an on-duty Engine 20 would have made a difference or been able to save any portion of the burned homes, Doucette said simply, "I have no idea."
You simply have no idea?
Capt. Doucette, you mean to tell me that in all of your years of firefighting experience, you have "no idea" if an extra two minutes would have made a difference in the effectiveness of firefighting operations, had that first due engine company been in service?
Ridiculous! Just keep spitting out the company line, and drinking the Kool-Aid. I wonder if it's the same flavor that the upper brass of the D.C.F.D. have been consuming?
# posted by : August 30, 2008 7:09 PM
: August 30, 2008 7:09 PM
Baltimore has as many as 10 units shut down to man ambos at any one time and that does not include units out for pretend maintenance. All because the city refuses to fund emergency services properly
# posted by : August 30, 2008 9:46 PM
: August 30, 2008 9:46 PM
2020,
I understand your point, but when you are the PIO, your job is to spout the company line.
I give Sacramento credit for putting it in the press release and providing a website to show the closures.
As a reporter, when I hear government officials trying to justify delays, whether it is because of rotating closures or another reason, I always ask how can you on one hand tell the public every second counts in an emergency, but that it's okay if the fire engines don't arrive in a timely manner.
Statter
I understand your point, but when you are the PIO, your job is to spout the company line.
I give Sacramento credit for putting it in the press release and providing a website to show the closures.
As a reporter, when I hear government officials trying to justify delays, whether it is because of rotating closures or another reason, I always ask how can you on one hand tell the public every second counts in an emergency, but that it's okay if the fire engines don't arrive in a timely manner.
Statter
ck up too much of our city budgets. Most don't retire..most go out on disability leave when they get a splinter in their hand. The public also doesn't realize that most firemen work less than half the time that most Americans work..I personally know a few that enough free time that they own businesses on the side.
Boo Hoo for the fire department..cut their pay and retirement packages, then they could afford to keep more fire houses open.
The firemen's union can be blamed for this.
Boo Hoo for the fire department..cut their pay and retirement packages, then they could afford to keep more fire houses open.
The firemen's union can be blamed for this.
# posted by : September 1, 2008 7:25 PM
: September 1, 2008 7:25 PM
You have got to be kidding me! Cut our pay and retirement?! What if we did that to you. It is true that we may on occasion we work a little less than the average person. Do you want a volunteer fire department where you may get help if you need it depending on whether anyone wants to get off of their butt and help you? Or do you want to know that if things go bad, there will ALWAYS be someone there to save you? That is the most ungrateful statement that I have read in a while. It is that mentality that causes the budget cuts that get firefighters killed everyday. Sure, let's cut out the training budget too. I mean who really needs to know how to do their job anyway? It's not like we are risking our lives or anything. Maybe you should tell my daughter that her mother doesn't deserve a salary or a pension. You wouldn't feel that way if you had just had your limp body drug out of a burning building. Who would do that if no one were at the station? Would two minutes matter then?
# posted by : September 1, 2008 8:54 PM
: September 1, 2008 8:54 PM
The public also doesn't realize that most firemen work less than half the time that most Americans work..
Your kidding right? If you mean they have a couple more days off a week than you then yes. But how many hours a week (regular work week) do you work? 40, 45? I don't know how many hours they work in Sacramento but MOST departments I know work a 56 hour work week. Most departments I know have their people working 24 hour shifts. You want them to work a shorter shift? That means more firefighters on the payroll.
Boo Hoo for the fire department..cut their pay and retirement packages, then they could afford to keep more fire houses open.
Just as long as no one touchs your stuff right? Crawl out from under that rock you live. I beat your the same person that complains when you have to pull over for an Engine going to a call. The same person that complains when they don't arrive fast enough.
To the people being effected by this 'Brownout' if you don't say something to your elected officials it will get worst before it gets better. This time it was just two homes. Next time it very well could be someone's life, maybe yours.
Your kidding right? If you mean they have a couple more days off a week than you then yes. But how many hours a week (regular work week) do you work? 40, 45? I don't know how many hours they work in Sacramento but MOST departments I know work a 56 hour work week. Most departments I know have their people working 24 hour shifts. You want them to work a shorter shift? That means more firefighters on the payroll.
Boo Hoo for the fire department..cut their pay and retirement packages, then they could afford to keep more fire houses open.
Just as long as no one touchs your stuff right? Crawl out from under that rock you live. I beat your the same person that complains when you have to pull over for an Engine going to a call. The same person that complains when they don't arrive fast enough.
To the people being effected by this 'Brownout' if you don't say something to your elected officials it will get worst before it gets better. This time it was just two homes. Next time it very well could be someone's life, maybe yours.
# posted by : September 2, 2008 12:57 AM
: September 2, 2008 12:57 AM
I have got to agree with whom ever the anonymous one is that stated "you have got to be kidding me" Cut our pay and retirement? That wont fix the problem. But this same person bashed volunteer fire firefighters. Shame on you. Talking about volunteers getting off of their butts to have to help. I have been a volunteer firefighter for 17 years. In those 17 years I have missed maybe 40 calls that I could have made if I was not busy living. Three of those were because I was recovering from a line of duty heart attack. I work my full time job...some times 60 hours a week. I still respond to an average of 70 calls a year plus unpaid training hours plus unpaid fund raisers for epuipment. My pay.....10 dollars per call. My certificates have the same writing on them that yours does. They say Certified. Please dont cut my pay. I am sorry if your area might have a poorly staffed or ran volunteer fire department but maybe that is due to people like you that do not respect them and encourage them. But please people...do not cut the pay or retirement of fulltime firefighters. That will not fix a thing. It will just mean that guys (and girls) like myself will have to continue to leave their families in the middle of the night after already working a 10 hour shift at their job during the day to save a life or to fight a fire. I do it with pride. D. Rhoads. Kansas Volunteer Firefighter.
I work a 24/48. I do not work all 24. However I am not free to do what ever I want. Some of us are responding to calls all through the night. Most fire fighters work on their days off for the money. Because we work for local government we don't get paid that well. So we work on the side. Put that all together we fire fighters work a whole lot more hours each week than most people.
# posted by : September 3, 2008 11:14 AM
: September 3, 2008 11:14 AM
I completely apologize to bumpy if I offended you by my comment. I, myself am a member of a (completely) volunteer department, as well as a pay percall department in the city that I live in. I was not diminishing the qualifications or dedication of those men and women at all. I was only saying that volunteers have an option as to whether they respond to a call. Those who are getting paid to staff a station do not. I admire all of those who get up in the middle of the night when they would rather be at home sleeping in their own safe bed. I think it is sad that such a high percentage of firefighters in America are volunteer. It just speaks volumes about our character. I find it apalling that Americans fork out thousands of dollars annually for insurance (health, life, car, home) if God forbid something should happen. None of those are going to save your life, but you don't wanna pay a salary for someone who will?! I think America needs to take stock in what is really important.
Sorry, I wouldn't be anonymous, but I can't remember my password
TN firefighter
Sorry, I wouldn't be anonymous, but I can't remember my password
TN firefighter
# posted by : September 3, 2008 11:40 AM
: September 3, 2008 11:40 AM
This is in reponse to 2020's comment. I am the PIO for Sacramento FD and I do not typically respond to comments , however in this case it seems like 2020 is a credible person who deserves to hear from me. I did say, "I had no idea if we would have lost one or two homes if Engine 20 would have been available". I said that right after I arrived on scene and it was one of the first interviews I did. In fact I didn't know at the time, but both houses were burning when our first crews arrived. As the PIO I am supposed to speak the "company line", although for me sometimes it is hard. I am also lucky that our current administration does not want me to "sugar coat" anything, they want me to tell the truth, nothing more, nothing less. There isn't a person in our department from the Chief all the way down that supports these brownouts. We all know that we are taking a huge risk and we are not happy about it. The SFD has been upfront with the public, City Management, and the City Council about what can happen with these brownouts, and now what the Chief and others have been saying is coming true. The Sacramento FD is an extrmemely busy Fire Department, and any company closure can and will affect all of us. In fact when these budget cuts first came about, our Chief told the City Council that he should not be talking to them about "closing companies' he should be asking them for more companies and more fire houses. Hopefully someday soon, the Sacramento FD will be brought up to standards, and these brownouts will be a thing of the past.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I have been a volunteer firefighter for 16 years. Our dept. responds to approx. 300 calls per year. We are 100% volunteer with the exception of the chief who is paid full time. we do not respond to medical calls. after reading about all of the fire dept cuts across this country, the lack of knowledge held by the administrators that make these decisions staggers me. if they do have the knowledge, and decide to make cuts anyway, it is criminal. they would being making decisions that they know will cost firefighter and civilian lives and property. When did the possible loss of someones life enter into the decision making process of the budget? I am not sure about these administrators, but I took an oath to protect life first and then property. I did not swear to do my duty as long as I felt I was being paid enough. On that note, what is the going rate for someone putting their life in danger to save you. Elimination of public safety in any amount should not even be considered. This is NOT a game people. Firefighters do this everyday, and almost everyday somewhere in this country one or more firefighters ARE killed or die in the line of duty. This is a cold fact. Unfortunately, until these administrators experience their "once in a lifetime emergency" they will continue to make decisions based on paper. However, no matter what cuts are made, no matter how small the staffing gets they know every brother and sister I have out there will continue to do their very best to come to your aid when you need it.Even to the aid of those making these decisions. Read as: Public Servant, What is in the best interest of the public you are paid to protect, Oath,Oath,Oath......
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# posted by : September 4, 2008 8:32 PM
: September 4, 2008 8:32 PM Links to this post:
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