STATter 911

Isn't this the same location where another fire engine rolled a few years back? The other engine was from Arlington....
 

I know the guy that was driving and I can tell you that if the truck rolled it was not because of his driving ability. He has always been one of the safest apparatus drivers I've known.
 

the other spot where engine 110 from arlinton wrecked was onn the exit ramp to I66 in rosslyn fool and that one was driver error just likethis one i'm sure this one was speed also..Got to remember that the airport doesn't run many fire calls so when they do it could be easy to try to rush...I hope they are all okay...
 

There are many factors to add in when an accident like this happens. Living in the northern Virginia area I can personally say that people here are terrible about pulling over and giving due regard to responding apparatus. The a majority of drivers here don’t even speak English let alone care about a fire truck going to a call, was it preventable it is to soon to point a finger, but with all the factors added in, a report of a structure fire, foreigners and airport firefighter who don’t catch much action anyways it was bound to happen sooner or later
 

When an airport fire department is called to help out with a fire there will be the adrenalin rush and with hat comes speed. Sorry anonymous # 2, you can know a driver all you want but when it comes down to the pedal to the metal on a call you never know what will happen when you leave the bay
 

Has anyone seen Leesburg Fire Departments new Tiller Truck yet?
 

the tiller is cool but besides the point, I guess all the money we pay on airport tax’s is going toward a new truck. Or our friends in the government could help out since their grant was denied. Two major airports and no help from the US government in paying for new equipment. Guess all the congressmen and senators just want to use the airport and get priority in getting off the ground, but when it comes to getting new equipment for the department where are they. Giving speeches for lower taxes and more money for schools that aren’t needed. Maybe this accident will help get the MWAA more money on fire trucks. They don’t need more Cops but better fire apparatus would be help-full. Especially since more and bigger planes are coming to the airports it is needed.
 

We should all be grateful that our brothers from MWAA are all okay. Rather than point fingers, let's keep them and their families in our prayers for a speedy and full recovery.

It sounds like a great job was done from Arlington, Alexandria and Ft. Myer for responding and assisting our own, and everyone else who assisted.
 

Don't you just hate bloggers?, especially one's that are anonymous. Why don't you wait until all the facts are in and the investigation has delivered it's findings. Be thankful that all involved were not seriously injured or killed. As for your other comments on the airport or it's operation, please keep your comments to yourself, as you have no clue what your talking about!!!
 

What matters is that the firefighters recover. Vehicles and money are just that...they can be replaced. Without being in the driver's seat it would hard to say what happened.Things are not always as they look. I think the firefighters should have the chance to explain. If it was driver error it was still an accident and I wish a speedy recovery to them all.
 

Nothing like convicting the driver before the investigation is over.

Several witnesses reported a loud noise preceding the wreck. Tire blowing out, causing the wreck? Something breaking in the suspension/steering? Tire blowing when it hit the curb, as a part of the wreck? Three things I thought of, and two are not the drivers fault.
 

Any thoughts on why they were going JD Hwy, and not their usual GW Parkway route?
 

Airport truck accident: The driver is a member of my family. He was a DCFD FF for 15 years. His adrenalin rush would not be as much as factor as you say. His experience possibly is more then most. Quit being Monday morning QB's and wish them well and learn from this accident, it could save you life.
 

Good ole top heavy Quantum for ya.

Those things are too tall to begin with. If you've ever worked from one, you can't help but wonder if that maybe that had something to do with it.
 

Hold on with the adrenaline rush and speed crap. I've been on the job now for over half my life and career now for ten years and I can tell you that the "rush" or being excited about what you do comes with this occupation. Most firefighters I know on the job with any amount of time and maturity knows how to control the "rush". Accidents happen; nobody is perfect... PERIOD. How many collective engines, ambos, trucks, squads, etc. do we have running around on the "not so perfect" northern virginia roads!
Personally I wonder why there is not more fire and rescue vehicles involved in accidents in NOVA. It's a mess to put it lightly and the public doesn't help any because they are so desensitized to firetrucks running up and down the road on medical locals because of an overworked and highly abused 911 system. Even though I don't know the drive of the MWAA piece personally, although I know some people who work with him and knowing the former Chief- I don't think MWAA would have anybody irresponsible driving the rig. Like I said accidents happen... I guess the Arlington guys (that see a lot of action) got the adrenilne "rush" also a few years ago... come on, get real and think about what you say before you say it.
 

Lets all get real here....no matter if you know him or if he has been a FF for 15 yrs, 25 or 45 years unfortunate events such as this occur. It was a sharp turn where this occured so regardless of experience or where he may have been a FF doesnt mean anything, so lets all take a step back and keep the guys in mind for a speedy recovery. Remember this can happen to anyone of us at any given time so dont think you are invinsible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

The driver of the truck was my driver at our vollie house before I was transfered to another station. No matter the call type or additional info from dispatch he ALWAYS maintained his cool, and never got crazy behind the wheel. So like others have already posted here save your opinions and passing judgments untill the investigation facts are revealed. We loose enough FF every year, we could have lost more here, lets all be thankful that we didnt!
 

Having known the driver and officer on this unit for years, I don't think a regular fire call, (which the airports DO RUN quite regulary)short of "Children Trapped" would cause them to rush into that turn. If they didn't wreck a unit responding to the Pentagon on 9/11 any other call is routine. I know the driver from when I rode Ambulance 5 in DC and the officer(one of my own) since being with the Airports. Both seasoned veterans with a long career and volunteer history in way busier departments. Human error is the last cause on my list for know.
 

Seems like a lot of people want to blame the accident on the height of the rig, if the driver was as experienced as people say he is then why is it the rigs fault. He knows his rig and dues a daily check on it. I have driven this type of engine and it isn’t that hard. The only fault is going around corners to fast they do tip over. Look at the skid marks. This is not a matter of “knowing him for 10 or 15 years” this is a matter of a driver who was going to a call and didn’t know the road changed direction so quickly. Let’s start adding names and not keeping this anonymous if you want to defend the driver. In Fairfax there have been two roll over’s of engines. Both occurred on turns and both were caused by speed and both drivers were seasoned veterans of drivers. You can know someone all you want from all department but pierce makes a good engine and if there is a default then it it not in the steering. SPEED+ SHARP COURNER= ROLL-OVER driver at fault.
 

To answer the question of why RE-335 was using J.D. Hwy. The dispatch location of the box in Alex required RE-335 to use J.D. Hwy. If they used the G.W. Pkw it would have added double the responce time.
 

seems like it would have been worth the extra time looking back.
 

Sorry, I told my crew I would not comment here but I cannot hold back any further. Innocent until proven guilty. (And I doubt that guilty will be the case.) That’s the American way. Wait for the results of the investigation. As an EVO instructor for many years I preach the philosophy of all accidents are preventable. However, preventability and fault are two different things. A complete systemic investigation is on going. The results will be released and then corrective measures will be taken. Human and mechanical error is always possible and all avenues will be looked at. As an experienced operator; how are you going to react to a mechanical error? Should that be judged as driver error? I will not even address the stupidity of the “Airport Firefighter” comments other than to say look at yourself in the mirror, who are you working / volunteering for? Then, look around the room at your next roll call and ask yourself who is the idiot in this room? When you cannot figure it out, go back to your mirror and you will find your answer! For the rest of you I leave you with this little piece of advice: English 101 is available on line at most community colleges. If you must spend so much time on the computer trying to judge and insult people, you should consider completing Eng 101 first! You might not make yourself look any dumber than your use of grammar and spelling makes you look! (Or is that the reason you hide under “Anonymous?) PTB-RTF-EGH!
 

Looks like he locked up the brakes and skidded, not saying anything about speed but that might be a clue. Wish there were better pictures. I know I got some when I was there. All that experience and the people who "know him" as with all fire truck roll over the years and all those drivers being known as good drivers it all comes down to the speed factor even if he wasn’t in a rush to get there he was going above the posted speed limit. As far as being glad that no one was hurt that a plus. Where is the replacement engine going to come from to cover the airport? MWAA isn’t like Fairfax who has plenty of reserve engines even if they are not the best maybe Uncle Fairfax, Prince William , Prince George, Alexandria, Arlington, District of Columbia could help the brothers out in this hard time and donate a reserve.
 

First I'd like to send my best to the two brothers injured and wish them a speedy recovery. Now to the "BIG CITY JAKES" who seem to have this great insight into federal and aiport fire service and how we do buisness. We face the same day to day challenges as you do. We face the same dangers as you it doesn't matter when the tone alarm hits we respond with the same pride and professionalism as the big city. I study and read various accident reports posted online and it seems that a majority of accidents occur involving municipal firefighters and not very many involve federal, or ARFF departments so who really gets excited when a working fire is reported.
 

i think all the finger pointing should be put on hold. yeah it may have been human error or could have been mechanical, who knows that's why they do investigations. the real thing behind this rollover is that all 4 firefighters are okay it could have been alot worse, we have lost 93+ firefighters this year already, thank god we didn't lose 4 more. accidents happen!! if it was human error i'm sure the driver will take responsibility and learn from his mistakes. my wagon driver drives quick and never has had an accident in his 15+ years he handles the rig like it's his own car, it comes with experience there's always that one factor that may change and cause an accident nothing's perfect. i know that there is a big problem with vehicles not moving out of the way for fire apparatus especially in the dc metro area. that might of been a factor, who knows, there may have been a couple of different factors. let's just pray for the firefighters involved & their familes and to them a speedy recovery. accidents happen everyday with apparatus just most aren't on the news.
 

One comment. Pierce Quantom!
They are built with an extreme high center of gravity. Designed to fail.
My thoughts are with the injured crew that suffered when that unit rolled. The Driver will always be known as the person driving 335. Good luck to all.
 

It's a good thing Leesburg got that new tiller truck. When there is another unfortunate fire engine accident, Leesburg can respond and help out. It has 6 pre-connected Amkus tools! Scwheeeeeet!!!!
 

I agree with the bloggers that are saying STOP moday morning quartering backing....you were not there and you don't know. You would not like it if you were in that position.
We should all just be thank full that we are not going to a funeral. Whether it is driver error or not. I was listening to the call and can tell you the reason they were coming down Rte 1 is b/c the call they were coming to is off of Rte 1 so if you don't know the enite situation don't comment.
We should all be wishing our brothers well and a speedy recovery and be thankfull that they can be home with there family and hopefully return to the job they love shortly.
Yes, Alexandria and Arlington did a GREAT job from dispatch to extrication and treatment!!!!
 

Well....first....the fact that Leesburg has a tiller has no bearing on this serious incident. Secondly, all the speculation and finger pointing at Pierce, the Driver, the Pope or whomever should stop and we should focus on our injured brothers. Everyone posting here, including myself was not there and we DON'T know what happened or why.
 

Being there and seeing the accident from my point of view he was skidding allot. Unexpected turn came up to fast?? That’s when he blew a tire and there was no recovery. Hope all is ok. What the site for this new tiller truck. Is there a way to start adding names to this list since all we have are anonymous people making comments? Just a name and what your experience is.
 

Our thoughts go out to the brothers and hope for a speedy recovery. To the driver of RE-335, brother, don’t beat yourself up over this. Every portion off this job is dangerous and at times things happen that don’t go in our favor. Hang in there and get well soon.

The Extrication: Rescue 109, I believe you guys had the driver extrication. It looked tough, any lessons learned? Rescue 104 and the others, how about your operations anything learned?

I arrived late into the call, just about the time when they were starting to cut on the roof of the bucket area. Now, when I ask these questions, please don’t read into them, I’m just looking for information to advance my knowledge of this type of incident.
1) You chose to use the circular saw with the metal cutting blade to begin your extrication. Although faster than the pack hammer, why that tool to cut the roof supports?
2) I was a little concerned when I heard the gas powered saw start up. Why that saw instead of an “O”-cutter or air chisel? Fumes inside the cab were an issue and the potential of lighting up the interior material could have been a problem.

Not operating in your location and dealing with what you were faced with, I’m just inquiring for my own knowledge.

Another avenue for the member trapped in the bucket area:
1)Immobilize him with the LSP or Yates Board (don’t remember the name of there class III product)
2)Set up an elevated point (ladder truck)
3)Place a haul system and bring him out of the door window
4)Rotate the stick and lower right onto an awaiting stretcher and back board.

I know Rescue 104 was there but did this go out as a Technical Rescue Box? If not, should it be set up that way in the future? What if we had to do extensive stabilization?

Brothers, stay safe!
Phil Perry, Captain 206-C
phillip.perry@alexandriava.gov
 

The last engine that rolled over on that turn. Did that driver get off because he was a good driver? No he was a rookie and he was roasted for it. The cause was speed, same thing happens with an experienced driver. What happens now? Since the majority of posters are confused cause they find fault on the engine design. If he was killed it would be driver error, since he lived it is a truck issue. We operate a fleet of pierce quantum’s and never had an issue, we have taken sharp turns and hill tops both fast and slow in summer and winter never had an issue. Having Quantum’s engines and trucks I can say this, Do a full check, don’t kick the tires and light the fires. Just out of curiosity how many people do a full check every shift? Tires, belts, hoses, brakes, or how many people hope in hit the lights and sirens, rev up the pump and call it a day????
 

I love how us brothers really point fingers at each other, and start pointing fingers. This was an accident. If these guys would have died, you all would have gotten dressed up in your class A, and heard the pipes, and looked really good for the public. I just wish the public could really see what happens behind closed doors in our so called brotherhood in todays fire service. How we put each other down all the time, and start pointing fingers when accidents happen, or how stupid another guy or gal may be. If I was to die in the line of duty, I just hope the good Lord above keeps away the double standard brothers away from me and my family. My heart goes out to driver and the rest of the crew. Guys they are some true brothers left. Keep your heads high, and just take care of each other.